Geology Station 7

Traverse to Station 9

 

Geology Station 8

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1995 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Audio clips by Dave Shaffer.
Last revised 8 January 2016.

MP3 Audio Clip starting at 166:30:48 ( 19 min 38 sec )

166:31:00 Cernan: Okay, Bob, I'd like the range and bearing to the...We're roll...We...

166:31:04 Schmitt: How did you get in reverse?

166:31:05 Cernan: I don't know. (Pause) Okay. We're rolling, and I'd like the range and bearing to the next...

166:31:14 Parker: Okay. We want a heading of around 125, and there's going to be a small turn, I think it's at SWP Crater at 225 and 3.4, there'll be a slight turn. That's a heading of 125 is what you should start out on.

166:31:33 Cernan: That's what I'm looking for.

166:31:35 Parker: And 225 and 3.4...

166:31:36 Schmitt: I thought we were bypassing...

166:31:40 Parker: No, we just do that...

166:31:41 Schmitt: I thought we were bypassing SWP.

166:31:42 Parker: ...during the mission planning stages.

[Jack thinks that both he and Bob are making a sarcastic reference to some pre-flight discussions about SWP, but doesn't remember the context. As Bob has said, the cuff checklist shows a slight course change as they round the southwest rim of SWP.]

[Cernan - "I've been reading ahead and I want to warn you that there's another important geologic observation coming up at 166:33:28."]

166:31:55 Cernan: Yeah. I got my...Man, I tell you, this little navigation map I've got on my cuff checklist (LMP/CDR-16) is unquestionably the greatest thing that I've ever done.

[Schmitt - "The other guys may have just had the EVA map with the traverse on it. And you (Gene) said, 'Why don't we put that in the cuff checklist.' It wouldn't surprise me."]

[This conjecture is correct. Neither the Apollo 15 nor 16 cuff checklists contained traverse maps.]

[Cernan - "I tell you what. It may go back to my days in the Navy when we were doing low-altitude run-ins, and we would take a big sectional map. Your track might turn you left and right and south and we would cut the map in sections and we'd paste together so that you'd always have the navigation line - the run-in line - going away from you so that you were always flying forward no matter whether you were flying north or south or whatever. Even today I fly that way. I turn maps and mentally strip it in the direction I'm going. So, this could be an evolution of that."]

[Schmitt - " I think that's right. I think that Dave (Scott) and John (Young) used the map. Gene had the map up in front of him, but he wanted it translated into a strip format for the cuff checklist."]

[Cernan - "It's like a watch. Where's the most convenient place to put a watch? On a wrist. Not in a pocket. Pocket watches are nice, but the most convenient place to put it is where you can glance at it easily. That's why the cuff checklist, itself, was a great idea; and putting the maps in made it even better."]

[Schmitt - "The idea of the checklist, itself, goes back to Apollo 8. Bill Anders asked for one listing the things he was going to describe from lunar orbit. It wasn't a cuff checklist, but the checklist that Neil had sewn on his sleeve evolved from that."]

[Cernan - "The support crews deserve credit for a lot of these little ideas. Something might have been a problem on a previous mission and someone like Ed Gibson (who came up with the idea of the stay-open, spring-bound cuff checklist for Apollo 12) could come up with a simple fix that people on the prime crew might not have had time to think about. And, by the time of Apollo 17, the cuff checklist wasn't just a checklist of the things you wanted to do, it was a geologic flight plan."]

[Schmitt - "Now, as this line indicates, from my geologic experience - to contrast with Gene's Navy experience - you're used to keeping the map oriented one way and translate, in your mind, where north is. I never did it very well, but a lot of people are able to do that."]

166:32:22 Schmitt: That's all right. I'm learning to tolerate it. (Pause) Okay, Bob. We're pretty close now to...No, we're not. We're still about 100 meters, I think, from where the break in slope is with the plains. But we're away from the block population except for scattered...(except for) two great big blocks out ahead of us, this side of the SWP Crater. But the average population is down to the 1 percent or less, again. (That is, one percent of the surface is covered by rocks ("blocks") bigger than about one centimeter.) That average population really never changed up in here. Just the big blocks were around. (Pause) I saw some little...

166:33:13 Parker: (Lost under the Public Affairs Commentator)

166:33:14 Schmitt: ...half-meter to one-third-meter, glass-lined, pit-bottom craters. (Pause) Look at the size of those things (the big blocks)!

166:33:28 Cernan: Boy, aren't they big mamas...mamoos.

[Jacks traverse photos are AS17-142- 21671 to 21691. Frame 21674 is a photo of the "big mamoos". Mamoos is slang for breasts.]

166:34:13 Cernan: Yeah. Way over there.

166:34:15 Schmitt: Yeah! Cochise is certainly a shallow crater, although we knew that. It doesn't have any...It only has one place I can see that has any blocks on the inner wall of Cochise. Otherwise, it has a surface much like what we're driving on - for walls and for the floor. One place on the south-southeast wall, there is a concentration of blocks much like we saw in Henry or in Horatio. But the rest of the crater seems to be pretty well mantled. (Pause) Van Serg is a very blocky rim crater, big blocks up on the rim.

166:34:53 Cernan: Do you have a lot of static, Jack, or is it just me?

166:34:54 Schmitt: No, I think it's just you. People are always giving you static. (Pause)

166:35:02 Cernan: Bob, if you are still reading me, I'm looking at the Sculptured Hills, and I still have that (impression of an) old man, wrinkled-face appearance, even up close at this Sun angle. And those wrinkles go from, generally, upslope at the west to downslope at the east.

166:35:22 Schmitt: Hey, are you...No, you're right at the edge of Cochise. Aren't you?

166:35:28 Cernan: Where? Right here?

166:35:29 Schmitt: Yeah. Aren't you?

166:35:30 Cernan: No, we're not that close. Uh-uh. Cochise is up at...See that rim where those blocks are?

166:35:34 Schmitt: No, that's a small crater.

166:35:36 Cernan: Oh, I'll bet you that's Cochise up there. We've got to go quite a ways yet to get to...

166:35:41 Parker: How about a range and bearing there, guys?

166:35:42 Cernan: This sideslope driving is really a tough...

166:35:45 Parker: How about a range and bearing?

166:35:46 Cernan: Okay. It's 210/3.4.

166:35:49 Parker: Copy that. 210/3.4. And you should be somewhat north of Cochise there, as per planning, although you may be cutting south to try (to avoid) going directly up-Sun.

166:36:03 Schmitt: I guess that's some other...

166:36:04 Cernan: That's just a depression. I think Cochise is over that rim.

166:36:05 Schmitt: That's just a depression. Yeah, yeah. (Pause) Those are getting warm. (Pause)

[Jack is probably saying that his hands are getting warm; either that or he has noticed the battery temperatures. However, only the temperature gauge for battery 1 is working - the other having failed during the rest period. In addition, the battery 1 temperature at the next stop will be 115ºF. Prior temperatures on this EVA were 95ºF at the start, 100ºF when they left the LM, and 108ºF at the start of Station 6. The temperature at the end of EVA-2 had been 114ºF degrees.]

[Cernan - "I've got to believe that it's not batteries. We could start to feel the Sun penetrating the suit on the EVA-3. We were driving into the Sun, sitting still. We were not going in and out of shade. Everything that was in the Sun, stayed in the Sun for twenty or thirty minutes."]

166:36:25 Parker: Yeah, we don't think you're anywhere near Cochise.

166:36:31 Schmitt: Yeah. I agree.

166:36:32 Cernan: Yeah. I think it's over that rim up there.

166:36:37 Schmitt: That's just a big, shallow depression. (Pause)

[They are roughly 300 to 400 meters north of Cochise.]

[Cernan - "We do that a lot when you're flying an approach. I don't know why I was doing that. Maybe it was the Sun angle or the slope. It wasn't the direct route to where we were going; but, by staying at 3.4 from the LM, we were going to get there."]

166:36:48 Schmitt: There's another one of those deep craters that doesn't have a blocky rim.

166:36:57 Cernan: Okay. 214/3.4.

166:37:00 Parker: Copy.

166:37:03 Schmitt: That's one of the more striking characteristics of the mantle are these craters that look, as far as the diameter-to-depth ratio is concerned, like they ought to be fairly young. But there's no blocks on the rim, and they seem to have this mantled appearance, just like some of the large craters. (Pause)

166:37:26 Cernan: As I look up Wessex Cleft from just about abeam of it...(Turning to avoid an obstacle) Let me get over here...It still shows me an albedo change and a surface wrinkle-texture change.

[Gene is driving generally southeast as he drives his 3.4-km arc as he approaches SWP. The Cleft is north, to his left; however, as he maneuvers to avoid craters and rocks, occasionally he gets a look in that direction.]

166:37:48 Parker: Okay. Copy that. You guys may be getting just a little far north...

166:37:49 Cernan: It's sort of a perfectly formed saddle in there.

166:37:50 Schmitt: Yeah.

166:37:51 Parker: ...You may want to head just a little south to avoid running right into the middle of SWP Crater.

166:37:57 Schmitt: Yeah. I think we see it now. Is that SWP?

166:38:00 Cernan: Well, I don't know. I don't...

166:38:02 Parker: SWP will be at 225 and 3.4.

166:38:09 Cernan: Yeah. That's my...That's what I'm shooting for, Bob.

166:38:11 Parker: Okay.

166:38:12 Cernan: I'm just flying a 3.4 mile...(correcting himself) or, kilometer arc.

166:38:17 Parker: Roger. I was going to suggest that.

166:38:19 Schmitt: Bob, there's something I haven't mentioned, but if one had time on the next (lunar) program (after Apollo)...

166:38:31 Cernan: I think that's SWP right there, Jack.

166:38:32 Schmitt: ...you can sample secondary craters, and they tend to have blocks either in them or on one rim, suggesting that you could tell directions if you put your mind to it. Directions of where the secondary came from. These are small ones.

166:38:48 Cernan: Did we ever get a piece of glass in place?

166:38:50 Schmitt: Yes, I did yesterday.

166:38:51 Cernan: Documented in place?

166:38:52 Schmitt: Yep.

166:38:53 Cernan: Okay.

166:38:54 Schmitt: That's what I was trying to protect in the SRC yesterday.

166:39:00 Cernan: Here's SWP, Jack. It's coming right up, and I'll go along the southern rim.

166:39:05 Schmitt: I wish I wouldn't lose...(To himself) Start concentrating. I'm forgetting to take my pictures.

166:39:10 Parker: Roger, Jack. Don't forget to take your pictures.

[Schmitt - "It strikes me - because of the casualness of Bob's little jibe - that, here we are, two hundred thirty thousand miles from Earth, third EVA, three and a half kilometers from the relative safety of the LM, and it sounds like we're down at the local Circle K (a chain of convenience stores), for crying out loud! Human beings and their psychological adaptability is just unbelievable!"]

[Cernan - "There you were, in a space suit, two inches away from the vacuum of the universe. Every time you made a move - from Earth orbit to translunar coast to lunar orbit, out of the Command Module to the Lunar Module, to the lunar surface, out of the Lunar Module, out on the surface in your suit, jump in the Rover and drive out about as far as you can theoretically walk back - you added a link in a chain that you have to gobble back up to get home. And, yet, you only think about it when you have to think about it."]

[During discussions with Pete Conrad and Alan Bean about the Apollo 12 mission, they said that the main factor limiting how far they got from the LM was concern about the health of the spacecraft. If there was a problem with the LM, they wanted to be able to get back relatively quickly so that they could take care of it and/or leave. The suits and backpacks were of lesser concern.]

[Cernan - "The health of the LM was always a concern. Based on an accumulation of experience, by the time of Apollo 17 we had more faith in the LM and, at least for our flight, actually powered it down. But my personal feeling is that, should something have happened to the suit or the Rover, I was on the spot to be able to do something about it. Whether I could or not was another story. But I, at least, was in control. But if I'm 3.6 kilometers from the Lunar Module and something happens in the spacecraft, I'm not there to do anything about it. So, when you left the LM out there all by itself, that was the weak link in the chain. If we had a problem with the suit, we were going to scoot back home to the LM."]

[Schmitt - "I've really been searching my memories of all the flight planning we did - and I did a lot of it for the EVAs - I don't remember concerns about the LM ever coming up. I remember concerns about suit leaks, about the energy levels it would take to walk, what was a reasonable distance to walk, and things like that. Pete's flight was the first pinpoint landing. We didn't know we were going to land as close to that Surveyor as we did. And so the EVA planning was pretty general and we thought a lot about what we were going to do if we didn't land close to it. I just frankly don't remember the security of the LM being an issue. I may be totally wrong. My thought in those days, as I recall, was that the ground was going to be watching that LM very, very carefully and was going to tell the crew. They were going to be close enough to get back in a hurry anyway."]

[Cernan - "The ground could tell you, but they couldn't do anything. They had absolutely no control over the LM. I've always felt - and this is not a knock at the LM, because the LM was one of the finest flying machines built for the purpose at hand - but I felt more comfortable in my suit. The LM was literally built to just get the job done, while the suit was almost over-engineered. When we pressurized the LM - whoop - it expanded like an oil can. It didn't scare me, but you did realize that you were at the mercy of a little tin can with a few motors running and blowers blowing and what have you. We convinced ourselves we could have gotten in our suits in three and a half minutes but, in the real world, we would have needed more time..."]

[Schmitt - "I think there was a (vacuum) chamber test - something associated with a chamber test. One of the tests was delayed because somebody stuck a pencil through the skin of the LM."]

[Cernan - "It was your minimum housing requirements on the lunar surface. Would I live in a LM for a month on the Moon? Aside from the lack of volume and so forth, I don't think that would be a judicious approach. I think you would have to get in something more stable. The LM is a good transfer vehicle and we lived in it for three days. But I don't think it would be adequate for any long period of time."]

[Schmitt - "You wouldn't want a lot of long-term activity going on in there. There's just too much chance of damaging it. Every time we went in and out, we'd bang against the DSKY."]

[Cernan - "We've had a long digression, but I think that the person who utilizes this information for any reason - ten years, twenty years or, just from a historical point of view, a hundred years from now - ought to know the feelings of the people who were really there. It's an important part of this document."]

166:39:16 Schmitt: (To Bob) Okay. I'll quit thinking and just take pictures. (Pause)

166:39:24 Schmitt: There's a crater...That double pit-bottom crater. That's the first one of those I've seen.

[Schmitt - "The more I think about what I said, the more I think that there were two pit-bottom craters side by side. Maybe there's a picture that shows it."]

166:39:34 Schmitt: Right.

166:39:36 Cernan: Right here. How's that grab you? That's SWP, all right.

166:39:40 Schmitt: SWP's a bigger hole than I thought it was. (Pause) SWP even has some blocks in the wall.

166:39:53 Cernan: Yeah, but the eastern and southeastern rim of SWP are just continuous...Ooh!...They're just continuous with the slopes of the Sculptured Hills.

166:40:04 Parker: Okay. Copy that. (Pause)

166:40:16 Cernan: (To Bob) How does 238/4.2 sound for the beginning of (Station) 8?

[Schmitt - "Because things were so ill-defined over here at the Sculptured Hills, it was decided that we would pick the exact place."]

[Cuff Checklist page LMP/CDR-18 indicates the general area in which they intend to do Station 8. Gene is referring to the northern end of the area, specifically to the spot marked 8A on both LMP/CDR-17 and LMP/CDR-18. He will actually stop at 226/4.0, which is spot a bit north of 8A but - because of the displacement of the LM from the planned landing site - at virtually the same range.]

166:40:24 Cernan: May have to take these slopes just the most comfortable way we can.

166:40:28 Parker: 238 and 4.0 (is what) we're expecting for Station 8, the beginning of it. 238/4.2...(correcting himself) 4.0. Excuse me; 4.0.

166:40:40 Cernan: Roger.

166:40:43 Parker: And remember again, Station 8 is a very flexible area. You just get to a place where it looks like it's feasible to sample the Sculptured Hills (material).

166:40:53 Schmitt: That's right.

166:40:54 Cernan: Yep. (Pause) Let me tell you, this Rover is a machine. I don't know if it saw that hill we're climbing, but I did. (Long Pause)

166:41:26 Schmitt: How's your...How're you doing?

166:41:28 Cernan: Doing fine. I'm trying to get around SWP over here and start hitting the...

166:41:34 Schmitt: (The) East Massif has outcrops on it (that) I can see now on the north side. And they, (like the North Massif outcrops), also tend to have linear upper terminations. And some of those line up as if there's roughly horizontal structure within the upper one-half of the East Massif.

166:42:01 Parker: Okay. Copy that, Jack. (Pause) Stop thinking and take pictures.

166:42:13 Schmitt: (To Gene) Go by that little dark crater over there. (To Bob) There's a very blocky-rimmed small crater, that's a dark-rim crater instead of a bright-rim (crater) like we'd seen some around that looked fresh. It partly may be the angle at which we're approaching it.

[Gene takes 22364 at about this point. A labeled version shows the location of the dark-rim crater.]

166:42:41 Schmitt: (To Gene) Why don't we get some samples of that material in there.

166:42:43 Parker: (Responding to Gene) Copy that.

166:42:44 Cernan: Right here?

166:42:46 Schmitt: Okay. Keep driving toward the rim and then just (do) a shallow curve. Okay. Now, curve it.

[AS17-142- 21692, 21693, 21694, 21695, and 21696 are Jack's photos of the approach to the crater.]

166:42:54 Schmitt: Okay. Right...Just keep going, and I'll stop you. (Pause) Whoa, straight ahead. Good, good.

166:43:03 Cernan: Okay, Bob. 226/3.6. There's a highly fragmental, small crater about 30 or 40 meters across, right on the southeastern rim of SWP. And most of the fragments are football size and smaller, and they're very angular. And probably the inside of that rim is...

166:43:26 Schmitt: Turns out that they'll break. They're clods.

166:43:28 Cernan: Are they clods?

166:43:29 Schmitt: Yup.

166:43:30 Cernan: I guess that's going to be about 70 percent covered on the inside of the rim with these things.

166:43:34 Schmitt: It's all instant rock (soil compacted in the impact), but the crater rim looks dark compared to other fresh craters like this that we've seen.

[Schmitt - "My erstwhile colleagues (in the lunar geology community) don't like the term 'instant rock'. They call it 'regolith breccia'. I got taken to task at some talk I gave."]

[Cernan - "It is instant rock! (Jack laughs) I used to think of rock forming over hundreds of thousands of years; but, all of a sudden, now I know what it is. 'Instant rock' adds dynamics to the description."]

[Schmitt - "What's happening in this area is that we've gotten a whole bunch of ejecta blankets from large craters like Henry, Cochise, and Shakespeare on top of each other. It's a very thick regolith, and craters which would have normally gotten to bedrock just penetrated farther into regolith, formed a lot of instant rock, and that's what's been thrown up on the rims. That's what we've sampled here and that's what we'll see at Van Serg (Station 9)."]

166:43:48 Parker: Copy. 50 Yankee.

166:43:51 Schmitt: And the frame count is 26. LMP frame is 26.

166:43:59 Parker: Copy that. Press on.

[Frame 21697 is the last picture Jack takes before they get to Station 8.]

166:44:04 Cernan: We are; we're rolling.

166:44:05 Parker: And, 17, we're hoping to go to station 8A...

166:44:06 Schmitt: (To Gene) Yep. Your wheels are just chewing those things (the clods) up.

166:44:08 Parker: ...the northernmost section of Station 8, if we can, of course.

166:44:14 Schmitt: (To Gene) Yeah. I think...I think we ought to head just about...

166:44:18 Cernan: Yeah. We'll get there.

166:44:20 Schmitt: Well...I think we ought to get below the highest peak up there because that seems to have the rocks on it. (Pause)

166:44:27 Cernan: I only see one rock (garbled)...

166:44:29 Schmitt: (Garbled) straight ahead.

166:44:29 Cernan: ...See that one. Of course, I don't know whether that came down. Doesn't look like it may have come down from the top. (Pause)

[Gene is correct. Once they stop and climb up the hill to examine the rock, they will find that it is glass coated and, therefore, that it was almost certainly thrown onto the mountain side from somewhere else.]

[During the review, we discussed the matter of what Jack had intended to say and concluded that "exotic" - a rock thrown in from elsewhere - was most likely. Gene suggested "You ought to program a computer to think like Jack thinks, feed it this sentence, and let it finish it. (General laughter) It would be a tough task."]

166:45:03 Schmitt: I think we're starting to see blocks. That one is so...so unusual...

166:45:13 Cernan: That's about the station. That's the northernmost station anyway. There's another one there.

166:45:20 Schmitt: Well, this probably is...We can get the other smaller population around it. I'm worried about that one being exotic to the Sculptured Hills.

166:45:25 Cernan: Yeah, it doesn't look like it rolled...

166:45:27 Schmitt: No.

166:45:28 Cernan: But I don't see any others, do you?

166:45:30 Schmitt: Well, there's some small ones up in there. Off to about the 2 o'clock position (relative to the direction of travel). But I think that's all. We're going to have to be satisfied with small ones. Big ones don't get down. There's some big ones way up on the slope.

166:45:43 Cernan: Yeah, I see those. (Pause)

166:45:48 Schmitt: Watch it; crater. (Pause; they've hit the crater) You're (low-gain) antenna (needs to be adjusted)...

166:45:59 Cernan: Yeah, let me get it for them. (Pause) Okay. We're at 227/3.9.

166:46:06 Parker: Copy. 227/3.9. (Pause)

[There was no change in the quality of the comm when they hit the crater, suggesting that Houston is still reading them through the LM.]

166:46:19 Schmitt: Yeah. That looks like subfloor from here.

[Schmitt - "I think we were still on the ejecta blanket of a crater - maybe Bowen (or SWP) - big enough to have penetrated to the subfloor and to have thrown rocks up the slope. So, what I was trying to do was get us away from that and get as far up the hill as we could go. We wound up at the northwest end of the Station 8 area."]

166:46:27 Schmitt: Yeah, it looks like subfloor. I would recommend that we...

166:46:29 Cernan: All right.

166:46:30 Schmitt: ...try to get up to some of those. I don't know whether we can or not. What's your pitch indicating?

166:46:35 Cernan: Well, that doesn't mean anything.

[The pitch meter has been broken since early in the mission.]

166:46:47 Cernan: Bob, no parking constraints on the battery?

166:46:49 Parker: Roger. No parking constraints. We'll park at 045, Gene. Or wherever you like, really.

166:46:57 Cernan: I have to park about 045 because I've got to be pointing uphill so we can get out.

166:47:01 Parker: Okay. Any place you want to. 045 is fine.

166:47:03 Cernan: Jack, I'm going to park...

166:47:06 Schmitt: How about just the rim of that little crater there?

166:47:09 Cernan: Well, this is so level right here, Jack, I'm going to just park it...

166:47:12 Schmitt: Well, I was just thinking on top of that crater is closer to the...That's level, too, on the rim. And it'll give them a good view of the sampling area. (Pause) I think we can...If we work on those blocks there, we're in pretty good shape. (Pause)

166:47:26 Schmitt: Bob, we're directly downhill, and that is (to say, directly downhill) from the highest point that I could see up on this first Sculptured Hill. (Pause)

166:47:40 Cernan: Bob, I'm parked at (a heading of) 026; bearing is 226; distance, 6.6; range, 4.0; amp-hours, 85 and 80; battery is 1...I think it's 115; and the motors are all off-scale low.

166:48:02 Parker: Okay...

166:48:03 Cernan: Not really, but...Okay...

166:48:06 Parker: And here, we would like...

166:48:07 Cernan: ...0 (and) 230 on the forward; and off-scale low (on the left rear); 220 on the right rear.

166:48:19 Parker: Okay. We copy that. We'd like to get the usual dusting here. (Pause) Up front.

166:48:26 Cernan: Yeah. And I'm fairly level.

166:48:28 Schmitt: Not really. (Laughing)

166:48:30 Cernan: I'm not, huh?

166:48:33 Schmitt: I just about rolled downhill again.

[Schmitt - "Your ability to sense a slope in one-sixth g is not as great as it would be in one g. The extreme, of course, being zero g where you wouldn't sense a slope at all."]

[On all of the Rover missions, the crews drove up slopes which seemed much steeper once they got off the Rover and tried to stand.]

166:48:38 Schmitt: Yeah.

166:48:43 Cernan: Well, at least we don't have a sideslope.

166:48:44 Parker: And, 17, we'd like...

166:48:46 Cernan: (To Bob) Battery covers stay closed?

166:48:47 Parker: Battery covers stay closed. But we do want the LCRU, and the TV camera, and the TCU (Television Control Unit) dusted. (Pause)

166:49:05 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

166:49:14 Parker: And, 17, we'd like the SEP blankets opened and dusted one more time.

166:49:22 Cernan: I think you're a dreamer, Bob, but I'll do it.

166:49:27 Parker: Roger. We keep hoping. (Long Pause)

[The SEP electronics package has long since shut itself off because of too high a temperature.]

MP3 Audio Clip ( 20 min 20 sec )

166:49:46 Schmitt: Bob, the first block I looked at here looks like subfloor gabbro.

166:49:56 Parker: Okay. We copy that. (Long Pause)

[TV on.]

166:50:14 Cernan: Should have it (the TV), Bob.

166:50:17 Parker: Okay. We've got a picture.

166:50:22 Cernan: You even sound better. (Pause) Battery covers are awful dirty, but I will not dust them as long as you're happy.

166:50:34 Parker: Yeah. I don't think dusting the battery covers gives us any cooler batteries.

166:50:40 Cernan: Well, I know; but it keeps the batteries from getting dust in them. I've had pretty good luck with them. They've been pretty clean.

166:50:47 Parker: Roger on that. (Long Pause)

[Fendell pans counter-clockwise.]

RealVideo Clip by Mick Hyde (1 min 06 sec)

166:51:14 Parker: Okay. Copy that. (Pause) We thank you. Ed (Fendell) thanks you.

166:51:24 Cernan: And we all thank you. Listen, if Ed thanks me, that's enough. (Pause) A man couldn't ask for any more than that. (Pause)

[While Fendell is panning counter-clockwise through NE, Jack runs rapidly across the picture, going cross slope to the southeast. He is taking 3-4 foot strides.]

[Cernan - "Jack is really covering some territory. The fact that the camera is panning in the opposite direction makes it look faster, but he's really moving across that slope."]

166:51:44 Cernan: Okay, I've got my thing...(Hearing Bob) Where'd he go? (Calling) Jack?

166:51:50 Schmitt: What?

166:51:51 Cernan: Oh, there you are. I thought maybe you fell in that crater I'm looking at. (To Bob) Okay. I'm going to give you a TGE reading.

166:51:56 Parker: Roger. Give us a mark.

166:52:00 Cernan: Our fender's beginning to fade and, uh-oh, the clip came off (the replacement fender but not the Rover) on the inside; that's what's wrong. We'll have to fix that before we start. The outside one's holding, but the inside one's not.

166:52:13 Schmitt: Bob, all the blocks bigger than 20 centimeters that I've looked at up here are subfloor gabbro in appearance.

166:52:24 Parker: Copy that.

166:52:26 Schmitt: I've looked at about five. (Pause)

[Fendell reaches the TV's counter-clockwise stop, and then reverses direction.]

[Gene had not given a mark, having been distracted by the fender clip.]

166:52:42 Parker: Roger. I copied it. Just wanted to check. (Pause)

166:52:51 Cernan: Okay, Jack. You find anything up there?

166:52:53 Schmitt: Gene, I'm going to go up and look at this one rock. Why don't you set up and sample any one of these other big ones. They're all the same. Like the one near the Rover. And I'll go up and try to get this big one down there.

166:53:10 Cernan: Well, okay.

166:53:12 Schmitt: It's the only one left to look at, but right now we're dealing with subfloor material, I think.

166:53:17 Cernan: What about some of these little fragments that seem to be sitting more on the surface?

166:53:20 Schmitt: Yeah, we're supposed to rake here. We'll get those with the rake.

[Fendell finds Gene north of the Rover at an appreciable distance. Jack is beyond him, hopping upslope and approximately three times farther away.]

[Schmitt - "With that slope, the kangaroo hop was the only way to move."]

[Cernan - "You couldn't really go one foot in front of the other uphill, because you can't get your foot high to take that step. So you hop."]

[Schmitt - "I don't recall anybody ever walking up stairs in a pressurized suit."]

[During the Apollo 16 EVA deployment at 121:22:45, shortly after the loss of the heatflow experiments, John steps up onto a 20 cm rock and then down on the other side. This is the only 'step up' and 'step down' that I know of in the Apollo video record.]

166:53:27 Schmitt: Yeah. That's why I want to look at it.

166:53:29 Cernan: You don't have a hammer, but if you need me, I'll come up there because I think that may be worthwhile.

Video Clip ( 3 min 56 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 39 Mb MPEG )

166:53:34 Schmitt: I'll roll it down to you.

166:53:35 Cernan: Yeah. Thanks a lot. (Long Pause)

[Gene makes his way cross slope to a boulder due north of the Rover. This is the sample 78135 location as indicated in the Station 8 plan map. Jack is climbing farther uphill to another rock, which is the sample 78220 location. Fendell starts to follow Gene, doesn't find him, and goes back to Jack. Gene's cross-Sun stereo pictures of the rock near the Rover are AS17-146- 22365 and 22366. Ulli Lotzmann has created a stereo-image from the pair.]

[Frame 22367 is a "locator" to the Rover. This excellent picture shows the TV camera pointed off to the left and the high-gain antenna pointed back towards Earth, which is over the South Massif. Note that the low-gain antenna, which is partially hidden by the high-gain is also pointed at Earth. The SEP antenna is behind Jack's seat and the rake for the explosive charges is visible on the back of the Rover. The East Massif is at the upper right. Readers should note the dark blemish on the East Massif foothill above and slightly to the right of the SEP antenna. This is the outcrop area that Gene notes as he and Jack leave Station 8 at 167:39:41.]

[Fendell finds Jack leaning over the upslope boulder. The plan map of Station 8, extracted from the Apollo 17 Preliminary Science Report, indicates that the boulder is approximately 53 meters ENE of the Rover. The TV record suggests that the boulder is directly uphill from the Rover. According to the mission report, Jack's heart rate peaks at about 167:05 at 122 beats per minute. Gene's peaks at about 167:10 at about 122 beats. These times correspond, roughly, to the times when each of them makes their way back downhill to the Rover. However, the uncertainty in the plotted times is unknown and these peaks may also represent the climbs up to the rock.]

[Cernan - "I got tired just watching this. We weren't breathing hard; but Jack's voice, when he got up to the rock, was forceful - which we tended to do in those circumstances. You had to blow it out."]

166:54:20 Schmitt: Okay, Bob. This rock is a big chunk of shattered, but still visible, bluish-gray anorthosite. It's glass-coated, and it actually looks like it's vesicular. I'm going to roll it downhill so we can work on it. Well, I'll document it first. (Pause)

[Schmitt - "Good idea, Jack."]

[Jack has taken cross-Sun photos of the boulder and is now taking a down-Sun from the right at a distance about equal to his shadow length. His cross-Sun stereos are AS17-142- 21698, 21699, and 21700. His down-Sun is 21701.]

166:55:02 Parker: Roger. I copy that. We'll be watching it coming.

166:55:08 Schmitt: Okay. But the point is, as Gene said, it's the only rock - (the only) big one anyway - in the area that I see that's perched on the surface as if it might have rolled here.

166:55:26 Parker: Okay. Copy that, Jack. (Pause)

166:55:36 Schmitt: But I don't see a (boulder) track.

[Fendell zooms in on Jack. The rock is perhaps one third of a meter high and two-thirds of a meter across. From later evidence, it is also about two-thirds of a meter long in the direction away from the camera. It is also broader on the bottom than the top.]

166:55:45 Schmitt: Well, we can get some small ones.

166:55:47 Cernan: Yeah, that I'm going to do. I tell you, this one is so...

166:55:51 Schmitt: I thought you might be able to break it up.

166:55:52 Cernan: Well, there's no...there's no corners on it. (Long Pause)

[Jack moves a few steps uphill. He turns his camera toward the Rover, takes a "locator", then moves to the upslope side of the rock. The "locator" is 21702; and 21703 is another down-Sun.]

166:56:24 Schmitt: (To Gene) Ready for this?

166:56:26 Parker: We're ready.

166:56:28 Cernan: Bob, (bag) 563 is the sample.

166:56:31 Parker: Copy, 563.

[Frame 22368 is a cross-Sun "after" of this sample.]

[The samples from this rock are described in the Lunar Sample compendium for sample 78235.]

Movie Clip by Peter Dayton (55 sec; 0.7 Mb)

166:56:36 Schmitt: Are you ready? Are you ready for this?

166:56:39 Cernan: I'm not sure I am, but go ahead. (Pause)

[Jack flips the rock over with his right foot. It starts to roll toward the Rover, but veers toward the right. Jack follows and kicks it again to keep it going. After a short while, it lands in a shallow depression and stops.]

166:56:56 Cernan: Five-sixths gravity that's missing. (Pause)

166:57:02 Schmitt: Hey, I'll bet you they would like, if I didn't step on it, a sample out of the bottom of that thing. (Pause) Yup. (Pause)

[Jack climbs back up to the place where he'd found the boulder, intending to sample the soil which it had been covering. Gene comes into view briefly, going away from the Rover and hopping uphill.]

166:57:30 Cernan: These others all look...You're right, Jack, they look like what we've been sampling (that is, the subfloor gabbro). (Pause) And they're all pretty well mantled except the ones you got up there. There's one more piece I see on the side of that crater that may not be.

166:57:43 Schmitt: Bag 545 will be soil from under that anorthosite boulder. (Pause) Bob, the only thing that bothers me about that boulder being subfloor - I mean Sculptured Hills - is that it's glass-coated.

166:58:12 Parker: Copy that.

[Gene reaches the rolled boulder. Jack is still sampling soil at the original boulder site, this time holding the sample bag low and at arm's length. He is holding the scoop nearer the handle than the head.]

[Jack goes down to Gene.]

166:58:25 Schmitt: Well, okay. I never would have moved it if I thought you were coming up.

166:58:28 Cernan: Well, I wasn't coming up; but I looked at some of those others, and there's only one more...

166:58:32 Schmitt: Okay. Well, I got it documented up in place. Let's...That's not the...I think that's the side that was down. Let me roll it over...

166:58:40 Cernan: (Placing the gnomon) Well, let me get a piece of that side since it was underneath. Then we'll roll it over and get a piece of the other side.

166:58:43 Schmitt: Good thinking. (Pause) Ah...Okay, yeah. Let's do it (take documentation photos) again. Except I got dust all over it (meaning the rock).

166:58:56 Cernan: (Left of the rock) Well...

166:58:57 Schmitt: (Right of the rock) The albedo...The down-Sun picture's not going to mean much. Let me get this (soil) sample in your bag. (Pause; going to Gene) I think we ought to change your bag because the stuff's going to start flying out.

166:59:12 Cernan: Okay.

166:59:13 Schmitt: It won't stay closed.

[Frames 22369 and 22370 are Gene's stereo photos of the exotic boulder, taken prior to sampling. Ulli Lotzmann has created a stereo-image from the pair.]

166:59:21 Schmitt: How's your hand for hammering?

166:59:23 Cernan: Ohhhh.

166:59:25 Schmitt: This will be easy. This will be easy.

166:59:26 Cernan: The old hammering hand...

166:59:27 Schmitt: This will be an easy one, Gene. (Pause)

[Gene moves to the right of the rock and slightly below it, and hits it six times with the hammer. Jack moves upslope of the rock. Gene is raising the hammer to head height.]

[Cernan - "I still can remember the reverberation through my body when I hit a hard rock like that. Your whole body would feel the impact of that hammer. By this time, I wasn't feeling inhibited from taking good solid swings. But I would have hated to miss it and hit my shin."]

[Schmitt - "I could feel it through the ground, through my feet, like a minor earthquake. And you could see where I moved when you started to swing? I never stood in front of you."]

[On at least two occasions during Apollo 16, Charlie Duke lost his grip on the hammer. Gene never did.]

[Schmitt - "That's one reason why I didn't use it. I never felt like I had control of it"]

[Journal Contributor Tomas Lundberg notes that Jack did use the hammer once on the Moon, at Camelot starting at 146:41:52.]

166:59:42 Schmitt: Okay. Let me...

166:59:43 Cernan: Oh, that's a pretty one inside!

166:59:44 Schmitt: Well, it's stained by the glass coating.

166:59:46 Cernan: Oh!

166:59:47 Schmitt: It's stained by that glass coating.

166:59:49 Cernan: That's a pretty one inside! Can you get that? Here, take my hand. (Pause)

[They are standing side-by-side. Using Gene's hand for support, Jack kneels to get the fragment, then gets up.]

167:00:02 Cernan: While I'm at it, I'm going to chop another piece off right here.

167:00:03 Schmitt: Yeah, get more than that. (Pause)

[Gene strikes the rock three times.]

[Cernan - "You notice that I'm standing a little below the boulder. It's something you do automatically."]

[Schmitt - "Human beings are basically lazy. And you naturally find the easiest way to get to it. One thing I noticed back at Station 7 is that, the first time I dropped the scoop, I stepped on it to get the handle up so I could grasp it. The second time, it was over at the rock and I just leaned against the rock and reached down."]

[Cernan - "That stepping to get the handle is something I do on the golf course all the time. If I happen to drop a sand wedge along the edge of the green - while I'm putting - and I go back to get it. Jack's right, we're lazy and we pick the easiest way out. I always step on the face of that club."]

[Schmitt - "I play golf, but I never do that. My clubs are too good for that. (General laughter)"]

[Cernan - "Jack never needs but one club when he's up to the green, and the putter's got a flat face and it's awful hard..."]

[Schmitt - "You don't want to step on your putter, anyway. It's bad luck."]

[Cernan - "Well, I've got all those high angle clubs with me when I'm around the green."]

[Jack gets the fragment with the scoop.]

[Gene drops the bag.]

167:00:36 Schmitt: Okay.

[Gene retrieves the bag with his hammer.]

167:00:39 Schmitt: No.

167:00:43 Parker: We copy; 564 from the bottom of the boulder. (Pause)

[Jack pours the sample into the bag that Gene is holding.]

167:00:50 Cernan: Sure that's the bottom, huh?

167:00:51 Schmitt: Yeah. It (the fragment) got mixed with local soil. (Pause) I'm pretty sure (that's the bottom). Let's turn it over. I think I'd recognize the top, although it's got dust all over it now.

167:01:05 Cernan: I think I'll get one more swap (rhymes with "wrap") off there. I don't want to seal this. Let me get another swap off there. I can get it.

167:01:10 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause)

[Gene hands Jack the sample bag and then leans on the rock so that he can retrieve his dropped hammer. He gets up easily and then strikes the rock seven times.]

[Gene changes his position from the right of the rock to above it.]

[Gene changes his mind and shifts back to the right. He hits three blows.]

167:01:51 Cernan: That disappear, too? That probably went into orbit.

167:01:53 Schmitt: Yeah.

167:01:55 Cernan: Boy, is that pretty inside. Whoo! We haven't seen anything like this! I haven't. Unless you've been holding out on me.

[Gene strikes the rock nine times.]

[From the way that both of them react, it is evident that, after the final blow, a fragment flies off to the right.]

167:02:07 Schmitt: Where did that one go?

167:02:08 Cernan: That's a good one. I'll go get it with my tongs. That's a good one. That one I worked too hard to get. (Pause)

[Gene goes about 20 meters to the right of the boulder, using a skipping gait as he goes slightly downhill.]

[Cernan - "I was braking as I was going downhill and then I hopped on two feet coming back up. You can see the degree of that slope. It was a lot of work; I wasn't making much progress." Frame 22379 from the pan Gene will take at 167:07:20 shows the footprints Gene's makes during the little excursion, skipping out on the left and hopping back on the right.]

[When Gene and Fendell return to the rock, Jack is examining it on hands and knees.]

167:02:57 Parker: Copy that.

[Cernan - (Tongue firmly in cheek) "I had that description written in my checklist, too. (General laughter) And, when I had to go pick up the chip of that boulder, Jack immediately picked up the cue and described it himself. Jack, this was going to be my big moment! You were going to let me do the whole thing, but you couldn't stand it."]

167:03:07 Parker: Okay. When you guys get done with that rock, we'd like to get to the rake sample, please. And that's probably just as well done by the Rover as anyplace else. We don't seem to see anything worthwhile here doing besides that.

[From his hands and knees position, Jack gets a sample bag and hands it to Gene.]

167:03:21 Cernan: Yeah. (Pause)

[Jack pushes back off of the rock but can't get his PLSS back far enough to rise. On the third try, he rocks his PLSS back far enough that he starts to tip over backwards. Once the PLSS is over his feet, he rises and hops back under the PLSS to catch himself.]

167:03:37 Parker: Copy...(Pause)

167:03:46 Schmitt: Here, let me roll it over. (Presenting his SCB) Go ahead. Want to put it in?

167:03:47 Cernan: Yeah.

167:03:48 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause)

167:03:54 Cernan: Oh, boy.

167:03:59 Schmitt: (To Bob) By "coarsely crystalline", (I mean that) probably the average grain size will turn out to be about 3 or 4 millimeters, maybe - maybe half a centimeter. (To Gene) Hold this, and I'll...

167:04:08 Cernan: Well, I got to go get a couple of pictures.

167:04:10 Schmitt: You gonna roll...Yeah, we've really gotten that one messed up.

167:04:13 Cernan: Yeah.

167:04:14 Schmitt: That's all right.

Video Clip ( 3 min 47 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 38 Mb MPEG )

167:04:16 Cernan: If you'd hold your scoop where that one came off, it'd help.

167:04:18 Schmitt: (Getting his scoop, which is planted to the left of the rock) Yeah; I was just going over there.

167:04:20 Cernan: On that other side.

167:04:21 Schmitt: It's going over there.

167:04:22 Cernan: This side is clear. That last one I took off. Okay.

167:04:26 Schmitt: (Positioning the scoop over the rock for Gene's "after") Right there.

[Frame 22371 is Gene's "after".]

[Gene moves the gnomon well away of the rock to the left. He then gets down on hands and knees and flips the rock with his right hand.]

[The rock rolls about 2 meters, landing with the same side up.]

167:05:03 Schmitt: (Kicking the boulder over) Well, I'm not sure now. It's got so much dust on it. But let's...(Pause)

[Gene gets up in two tries; then gets the gnomon.]

167:05:20 Schmitt: No. (Pause)

167:05:24 Cernan: Get it from up here. Boy, look at that glass on it. That's what you said, huh?

167:05:29 Schmitt: Yup.

167:05:30 Cernan: Which side was the glass on when you looked at it?

167:05:32 Schmitt: It's on all sides. It's on all sides.

167:05:34 Parker: 17, there's probably not much point in spending a lot of time out here trying to decide which is the top. It's not big enough, anyway, really to worry about...

167:05:41 Schmitt: We're not.

167:05:43 Parker: ...the top and bottom samples that are radiologically significant.

[Schmitt - "I think that what I had in mind was to get top and bottom samples for solar wind dating. We also had a plan to get soil samples from way underneath boulders, samples that had been shielded from cosmic rays. Bob was thinking about the cosmic ray issue; I had in mind solar wind dating of when the boulder got there. The solar wind doesn't penetrate more than 500 Angstroms (5x10-8 m); whereas cosmic ray secondaries wind up at two or three meters. So we were both right; I just never explained to him what I was doing."]

167:05:51 Cernan: Well, let me get a piece of this glass.

167:05:55 Schmitt: Righto. (Long Pause)

[The fragment comes off on hit number seventeen. Some of the blows are audible, unless the sound is being produced by Gene's microphone tapping on the neckring or some similar phenomenon.]

167:06:17 Schmitt: Okay. Let me try to get them.

[Gene gets a sample bag from Jack, who is collecting the fragment with the scoop.]

167:06:29 Cernan: Okay; a piece of the glass from it, Bob, is 546.

167:06:31 Parker: Okay. We copy 546.

167:06:32 Cernan: Along with a little of the local soil.

[Jack pours the sample into the bag. At some point after he finishes collecting the soil, he takes 21704 and 21705.]

167:06:40 Parker: And now we're ready for you guys to rake...

167:06:41 Schmitt: Okay. We'll go rake.

167:06:43 Parker: ...and I guess they suggest the crater rim if possible. Probably over there near the Rover.

167:06:50 Schmitt: Okay. (To Gene) Now you got a sample of that big block down there, huh?

167:06:56 Cernan: Yeah.

167:06:57 Schmitt: (Starting downhill) Okay. Don't forget your gnomon.

167:07:02 Cernan: Whoo! Oh, boy. Bob, on my frame count 85.

167:07:11 Parker: Copy, 85 for the Commander. (Pause)

[Jack uses what might be described as a "hop, skip, and jump" gait. Gene's "after" pictures of the boulder are AS17-146-22372 to 22374.]

167:07:22 Cernan: Jack, did you get a pan up here?

167:07:24 Schmitt: No.

167:07:25 Cernan: I'll get one.

167:07:26 Schmitt: Good, I forgot. I got interested in skiing.

[Jack switches to a two-footed skiing stance and makes repeated sounds of skis gliding and, as he goes, trying to hop from side to side.]

[Schmitt - "I'd started out trying to stride downhill. And it didn't work."]

[Schmitt - "Somebody was inspired to put out a "Ski the Moon" poster, this one just a white sphere on a black background."]

167:07:50 Cernan: Let's see, I must be looking back at...Well, there's SWP. (Pause) Oh...Golly, I don't know. (Pause)

[Fendell returns to Gene. The frames in Gene's Station 8 pan are AS-17-146- 22375 to 22397.]

[Frame 22379 shows the footprints he made when he went to retrieve the sample at 167:02:08.]

[Frames 22386, 22387, 22388, and 22389 show Jack at the Rover.]

[Cochise, Shakespeare, the LM, and Van Serg Craters are labeled in a detail from 22387.]

167:09:00 Parker: Okay. Copy that.

167:09:04 Schmitt: Hey, Bob. In the interest of time, I'll document this (rake sample) without the gnomon.

[Jack's "before" photos of the rake site are AS17-142-21706 to 21711. Note that he has used the rake to give scale and a shadow.]

167:09:15 Schmitt: Yeah. I should have brought it, but...

167:09:17 Parker: Okay. Don't forget the gnomon, Gene.

167:09:18 Schmitt: ...I didn't think about it.

RealVideo Clip by Mick Hyde (3 min 21 sec)

167:09:20 Parker: And we concur...

167:09:22 Cernan: (Grabbing the gnomon and starting downhill) Don't forget the Gene, gnomon!

167:09:23 Parker: ...with documenting without the gnomon. (Pause)

[Gene's final picture of the exotic boulder, taken before he picked up the gnomon, is 22398.]

167:09:30 Cernan: Whee! Boy, when you do this, and you're going downslope, that first step is a long one! (Pause)

167:09:39 Schmitt: I'm having...(Pause)

167:09:45 Cernan: (Doing long, two-footed hops) This is the best way for me to travel. Uphill or downhill.

167:09:48 Schmitt: What's that?

167:09:50 Cernan: Like this. Two-legged hop.

167:09:53 Schmitt: There seems...Yeah.

167:09:54 Cernan: And on level ground, I can skip. I don't like that loping thing.

167:09:59 Schmitt: Oh, the loping's the only way to go.

[Fendell can't keep up with Gene.]

[Cernan - "When you were hopping, I felt that you could really take off and still have significant control if you anticipated and shock-absorbed your landing. It really was the only way to travel downhill. I think that if you stride on a slope, you shift your weight too much from one foot to the other and, in one-sixth g, once you start to shift your weight your more apt to go kattiwampus (meaning "out of kilter")."]

[Schmitt - "Well, you know, it's hard to stride going downhill here on Earth, too. If you go down a twenty degree slope and you start striding, you just don't feel like you've got much control."]

[Cernan - "Yeah. And when you hop, you can lean back like you do in skis and control your center-of-gravity and not have it out in front of you. (Pause) I can relate to this. This is fun."]

Video Clip ( 3 min 44 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 37 Mb MPEG )

167:10:24 Schmitt: Yeah. On the "after" we can have it there. (Long Pause)

[Fendell finds them at the one-third-meter-high rock NW of the Rover. Jack is raking; Gene moves out of the picture again.]

167:10:56 Cernan: Well, what do you think about that? There's not much (that is, no rocks) in here worth...Man, there's just nothing...This has been totally mantled with talus. Well, it is; because that downhill pattern goes right down the slope of this crater, and...Actually, it goes upslope of the crater! This may be on a ray somewhere. Because it goes right downhill...This little, skinny boulder-trail pattern goes right up the slope.

167:11:33 Schmitt: (Still raking) I think those are later than the crater by a long ways.

167:11:36 Cernan: Did you sample anything over here?

167:11:40 Schmitt: No, I haven't done anything...

167:11:41 Cernan: I'm going to pick up the piece out of that little...

167:11:44 Schmitt: Yeah, get this...

167:11:45 Cernan: ...crater.

167:11:46 Schmitt: Want your gnomon over there?

167:11:47 Cernan: No. I'll just take it to it. (Pause) Let me know when you're ready for a bag.

167:11:55 Schmitt: (Having taken about 15 to 20 short swaths to this point) Well, I'm about ready. (Pause)

[Gene takes three "before" photos from inside the crater: AS17-146- 22399, 22400, and 22401. These show Jack using the rake on the crater rim.]

[Frame 22402 is a "locator" to the Rover.]

167:12:07 Schmitt: Yep.

167:12:08 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

[Gene arrives with a sample bag.]

167:12:35 Cernan: They're all in; (starts to give Bob the bag number)...

167:12:37 Schmitt: Wait, wait.

167:12:38 Cernan: ...565.

167:12:39 Parker: Okay. Copy that...

167:12:40 Cernan: 565.

167:12:41 Parker: Sounds great. Sounds like a good rake sample for a change.

[Jack presents his SCB.]

167:12:47 Parker: And this is a "kilogram-of-soil" location, fellas.

167:12:51 Schmitt: Yes, sir.

167:12:54 Cernan: Jack, your bag (SCB) is full; we're going to have...No, it isn't, but we ought to change it when we get back there (at the Rover), anyway. And that one ought to go under your seat.

167:13:00 Schmitt: Well...Okay.

167:13:01 Cernan: Get your kilogram. I'll be ready to take it. (Pause)

Movie Clip by Peter Dayton (59 sec; 0.7 Mb)

167:13:15 Cernan: (Getting a sample bag ready) The kilogram is in 566.

[As can be seen in 21706, the sides of the rake forward of the handle are made of metal sheet rather than being tines. Therefore, Jack can tilt the rake and turn it into a big scoop.]

167:13:36 Cernan: (To Jack) Why don't you go back and dig a trench at the Rover?

167:13:39 Parker: Roger. That sounds good to us.

167:13:41 Cernan: Okay.

167:13:43 Parker: And we also remind you of getting...

167:13:44 Cernan: Jack, once you get a trench at the Rover...

167:13:44 Parker: ...a pan at the lower section there.

167:13:45 Cernan: ...(garbled) scoop (garbled). (Pause) I'll get the sample here that I got documented now and...

167:13:53 Schmitt: Did you...Is that all going to go in there?

167:13:55 Cernan: Yeah, it'll go.

[Jack has just finished pouring a third batch of soil scooped with the edge of the rake.]

167:14:00 Cernan: Yeah. (Garbled)

167:14:03 Schmitt: That rock may have been too much. Take that rock out, and...

[Jack presents his SCB.]

167:14:07 Cernan: No, it'll stay. (Pause) We're going to have to put it in mine, though. (Pause) Well, let me try. Since we're going to unload your bag, this may be the last one. That's the last one for your bag.

167:14:23 Schmitt: Okay.

167:14:25 Cernan: Okay?

MP3 Audio Clip ( 12 min 50 sec )

167:14:27 Schmitt: Did you get anything out of that little crater?

167:14:28 Cernan: (Going into a meter-deep crater just north of the rake-sample site) No. But I'm going to right now.

167:14:29 Schmitt: Okay.

167:14:30 Cernan: Why don't you get your "after" picture (of the rake site) over there and go down and get that trench. I'll come down...

167:14:34 Schmitt: You don't want a bag? Okay.

167:14:35 Cernan: I can bag it. I can do it myself here.

167:14:37 Schmitt: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Jack goes SE of the rake site to take a flightline series of photos. He hops north after each picture to get a stereo sequence. These photos are AS17-142- 21712 to 21715.]

[Frames 21713 and 21714 show Gene sampling in the crater with his tongs.]

[Frame 21716 shows Gene examining his sample.]

167:15:31 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

[Gene's "after" of the sample location is 22403. The sample is 78155. The large piece broke into numerous samll pieces during the trip back to Houston.]

[Having hopped out of the crater, Gene gets the gnomon.]

167:16:31 Cernan: (Hopping toward the Rover, almost tripping) Okay. Where do you want this trench? On the side of this crater?

167:16:34 Schmitt: Well...

167:16:35 Cernan: I'll drop my gnomon...

167:16:35 Schmitt: ...I don't know. I was just thinking about that. I think we ought to get out in the inter crater area to see if there's any stratigraphy to whatever the talus is.

167:16:54 Cernan: Okay, Jack. I'm going to leave the gnomon right here...

167:17:00 Schmitt: I'll get it.

167:17:02 Cernan: And, while you're digging that trench, we've got the pan to get, but I want to fix this fender.

[Fendell finds Jack leaving Gene's seat, headed for the gate.]

[Schmitt - "The level of emotion seems to have dropped off a little bit. We'd been walking up and down that hill for quite a while."]

167:17:08 Cernan: Yeah, it is. And I want to fix the fender before...

167:17:10 Schmitt: Okay.

167:17:11 Cernan: ...before we leave. (Garbled)...

167:17:12 Parker: Okay. We agree with that, and you might get us...

167:17:13 Cernan: ...one, and I'll tighten...

167:17:15 Parker: ...you might get us the gravimeter reading there, Gene, while you're at it. And if you have time, you might drop the gravimeter on the ground, and we'll get a reading with it on the ground as well.

Video Clip ( 2 min 50 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 28 Mb MPEG )

167:17:28 Cernan: Holy Smoley!

[Jack is probably taking "before" pictures of the trench site. Frames 21717 and 21718 are the cross-Sun pictures.]

167:17:31 Cernan: 670, 096, 001. 670, 096, 001.

167:17:40 Parker: Copy that.

[Fendell reaches the counter-clockwise TV stop and reverses pan direction.]

167:17:46 Parker: Gently.

167:17:49 Cernan: Gently. I can't find a general level spot, but I'll level it. If it takes pictures...(correcting himself), or, if it does it's thing on the Rover (which isn't very level), it'll do its thing here.

[Frame 21719 is Jack's down-Sun "before" of the trench site, showing Gene in the background taking the TGE off the Rover.]

167:18:11 Cernan: Okay. Mark. (Garbled)

167:18:12 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

167:18:24 Cernan: It's fender-fixing time; it's camera-taking-off time. (Pause) And I think I'll zap myself with a little cool water.

[Cernan - "The reason the camera comes off is that I've got to get close to the fender. The camera keeps you about a foot away from anything. Plus you bang up the lens."]

[Schmitt - "There's something I don't think I mentioned back at Station 7. We were talking about manipulating things more easily. When I was getting samples into a bag, I had mastered how to do that without the camera interfering; where, on the first and second EVAs - like Station 3 - I hadn't figured it out."]

[Cernan - "If you had to bag something yourself, you had both a vision and an access problem. So you had to find out where your arms met each other above or below the camera."]

167:18:43 Schmitt: Oh, down. (Pause)

[Fendell zooms in on the rock at the rake site.]

167:19:17 Schmitt: Bob, I have gotten a wall now, in one place, that's standing about 25 centimeters high. And it shows no apparent change in the texture of the soil to that depth; except possibly at the lower 5 centimeters, there's some zones that might be slightly more granular. Particle size may be up a little bit.

[Jack's speech pattern has slowed noticeably. He spends time searching for words.]

[Schmitt - "Part of the reason is that I'm tired. It also happens when I'm thinking and trying to talk simultaneously - which I never did very well."]

167:20:02 Schmitt: I think so. Maybe four.

[Schmitt - "It was a judgment call based on how deep the trench was. You'd take one at the bottom, one is the middle, and a skim off the top."]

167:20:07 Cernan: Be there in a minute, Jack.

167:20:09 Schmitt: Oh, that's all right. I can probably get started. (Pause)

[Jack's heart rate is down to about 90 beats per minute. Gene's is only down to about 110.]

167:20:22 Cernan: Ohhhh, boy!

167:20:24 Schmitt: Need some help?

167:20:25 Cernan: Nope. (Pause) Boy, we're sure giving this suspension system a workout. Whew! I can even see it. (Long Pause)

[Cernan - "I was leaning over the fender, putting pressure on the Rover; and I think I was bouncing it up and down. I think that each wheel had a V-type torsion bar (see 20453) because the Rover had been folded up for storage in the LM. We didn't have shock absorbers because we would have had dust problems."]

[Schmitt - "The Rover was parked with the rear end downhill, so you were more or less able to stand there looking at it."]

[Fendell finds Jack southeast of the Rover, trying to angle the scoop head. He had it oriented vertically to dig the trench and now wants to set it at right angles to the handle so that he can sample the trench. Unfortunately, the locking mechanism is now thoroughly fouled with dust. He bangs the scoop head with his hand.]

167:21:05 Cernan: Boy, everything is stiff. Everything is just full of dust. There's got to be a point where the dust just overtakes you, and everything mechanical quits moving.

[Schmitt - "Anyone planning to work on the Moon or Mars ought to have Gene's statement engraved on their forehead and on the inside of their glasses."]

167:21:22 Cernan: I'm not sure whether Detroit would like the fender, but it will sure buy the fix. Okay, it's fixed.

167:21:31 Parker: Okay. Copy that.

167:21:33 Cernan: And I'm happy; I like it.

167:21:34 Parker: Roger. We copy that. And copy it again.

[Jack gives up on the scoop head and sets it at angle of about 20 degrees from vertical.]

167:21:41 Cernan: And again on the (garbled). (Pause)

167:21:46 Schmitt: (Responding to Bob's "3 minutes") Good luck!

167:21:49 Cernan: You need any help (garbled) bag those samples, huh?

167:21:51 Schmitt: Yes, sir. I think I do. I can't adjust my scoop to my self-bagging method.

[Schmitt - "This confirms what I thought back when we were going through Station 7 - that the 90 degree angle was something I'd worked out in order to bag samples more easily when I was working alone. I'd hoped to do that here while Gene was doing something else; but, now, Gene's come over and we'll go back to two-man sampling routine."]

167:22:05 Schmitt: Okay; the bottom 10 centimeters...

167:22:07 Cernan: Let me get your bags...I left my camera off when I...

167:22:10 Schmitt: ...of a...

[Gene gets one of Jack's sample bags.]

167:22:22 Cernan: What's this? The bottom?

167:22:23 Schmitt: (Backing up to take pictures) That's the bottom.

[Jack's pictures of the trench are AS17-142- 21720, 21721, 21722, and 21723.]

167:22:37 Schmitt: I told them...I talked to them a little bit about it.

167:22:39 Cernan: Okay.

167:22:40 Schmitt: It looked a little coarser-grained, but that's all. (Pause)

167:22:50 Cernan: It sure holds a nice wall, though.

167:22:54 Schmitt: Yep.

167:22:55 Cernan: That's the kind of wall I expect those core tubes held.

Video Clip ( 3 min 10 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 31 Mb MPEG )

167:22:59 Schmitt: You got another one (bag)? Okay. Skim of the upper...We'll see how well I do. (It's a) skim sample of the upper half centimeter. Maybe a centimeter deep. (Pause)

167:23:26 Schmitt: (Pouring) Okay. Can you hold that?

167:23:28 Cernan: I'm going to put it in your bag.

167:23:30 Schmitt: (Presenting his SCB) Is it going to fit in there?

167:23:31 Cernan: Well, there's no choice, right now. Let me...Yeah, these little ones will fit in there. (Pause) Stand by. I want to put this one in there, too. That's in bag 549.

167:23:43 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

167:23:57 Cernan: (Sealing the bag and putting it in Jack's SCB) Okay. Try again. (Pause)

167:24:05 Schmitt: Okay, the upper...Below that skim: the next 5 centimeters. (Pause)

[Schmitt - "After I got the skim, I just stuck the scoop part way in the wall and scraped upward to get the next 5 centimeters."]

167:24:23 Cernan: Well, just put it (the scoop) over it (the bag).

167:24:24 Schmitt: Well, I can't turn it (the scoop). (Pause)

[Gene has been holding the sample bag at about chest height, thereby forcing Jack to fully extend his arm and raise it over his head to pour.]

167:24:36 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

167:24:39 Schmitt: (Scraping a deeper section of the trench wall) And the next 10 centimeters down...(Pause) (To Gene) Can you get this one too?

167:24:45 Cernan: Yep. (Pause)

[Gene gets another sample bag and holds it at about the same height; Jack solves the pouring problem by rotating the scoop.]

167:24:57 Schmitt: (Presenting his SCB) Okay. That was the next 10 centimeters; and, then, the first sample, of course, was the 10 centimeters below that.

167:25:04 Parker: Roger. Copy that.

167:25:05 Cernan: And that last bag was 551.

167:25:07 Parker: Okay. Copy that. We're ready for you guys to move out.

167:25:13 Schmitt: Okay.

167:25:15 Cernan: You didn't get a pan here. While I clean up the Rover, you can get your "after" of the trench in the pan.

167:25:21 Schmitt: I will.

167:25:23 Cernan: I'll get the TGE and clean up the Rover.

167:25:25 Parker: That's affirm. We agree with that.

[They both turn to look at the trench.]

167:25:31 Cernan: It sounds like Bob's stepping on his foot mike.

167:25:33 Schmitt: Yeah, he's so excited...

167:25:35 Cernan: Okay...

167:25:35 Schmitt: ...he can't stand it.

167:25:36 Cernan: You done with the gnomon?

167:25:37 Schmitt: Yup.

[Jack has taken two final "afters" of the trench. These are 21724 and 21725.]

167:25:41 Schmitt: I'll get the pan.

167:25:42 Cernan: (Getting the gnomon and heading for the gate) You get your pan, and I'll get the TGE and clean up.

167:25:43 Schmitt: You took a pan up the hill there?

167:25:45 Cernan: Yeah; I took it way up there, somewhere.

167:25:47 Schmitt: Okay. I'll take it right here, then. (Pause) Uh, oh.

167:25:56 Cernan: What?

167:25:57 Schmitt: Samples came out.

167:25:59 Cernan: A sample came out?

167:26:00 Schmitt: I'll pick it up.

167:26:01 Cernan: Yeah, your top came open. It's awful full, Jack. If you can't get it, I'll get it with the tongs.

[The top of Jack's SCB is flapping open. Two sample bags have fallen out.]

167:26:12 Cernan: Yeah, those are the last two I put in there. Your bag is so full they won't stay. Let me give them a reading here. Hey, Bob, can I move it on the Rover and then give you a reading?

Video Clip ( 3 min 41 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 36 Mb MPEG )

167:26:22 Parker: Yes. As long as you're careful not to hit the button while you're doing it.

167:26:25 Cernan: Yeah, I can. I'll do it. (Responding to Bob) I won't hit the button. Just easier to do it that way. I don't know why I asked you; I know I can. (Pause)

[ Jack's Station 8 Pan photos are AS17-142- 21726 to 21745.]

[This is an excellent pan.]

[Frame 21727 shows the Rover tracks made as they approached this stop and, as well, Cochise Crater just above the center of the image.]

[Frame 21728 shows more of the Rover tracks and, in the distance, the light-colored, sunlit face of the Scarp.]

[Frames 21729, 21730, and 21731 show Gene picking up the TGE so that he can put it back on the Rover.]

[Frame 21734 shows the exotic, rolled boulder.]

[Frame 21741 shows a dramatic secondary crater made by projectile ejected from some distant impact. As indicated in a labeled detail, the projectile was moving from left to right when it hit. Note the spray of ejecta extending to the right.]

167:27:00 Parker: Okay. We copy that.

[Schmitt - (To Gene) "I don't know if you were aware of it or not, but one of the most successful experiments that we conducted was the portable gravimeter. They got great readings all across the valley; and the interpretation is great about the depth of the basalt fill in the valley - about two kilometers deep."]

[Cernan - "I'm glad; and I do think I remember that. But it was always a pain number one in the butt."]

[Schmitt - "And what it tells you is that the valley used to be almost five kilometers deep before it filled up. The eruption of mare basalt started very soon after the valley formed; but there's as much as a hundred million years of play (meaning 'uncertainty'), there. Serenitatis formed at something like 3.8 billion years ago - something like that - and the oldest basalt that we brought back - from Station 5 - came out at about 3.7 something. Nobody knows for sure how many flows there were or how thick they were. Some of the late basalts in Imbrium are relatively thin - ten meters or so. Some of the layers that they see in Hadley Rille are relatively thin. But whether that applies to the stuff deeper down, nobody knows. You may have had pretty thick cooling units. It just depends on how fast that stuff came out. Probably most of the basalts - in the early phases, anyway - when the flows first start in a basin like Serenitatis, it probably erupts from literally millions of centers. It's not like out on the West Mesa of Albuquerque where you had a single crack and that's where the basalt came up. Initially, a basin like Serenitatis - 500 kilometers across - is fractured to beat all hell and, so, anything coming up from below has an infinite number of choices. And then, gradually, most of those seal off and the later flows come out of a few, discrete, individual eruptions."]

167:27:10 Schmitt: Yup.

167:27:12 Cernan: I'll get those things with my tongs. You can't get them. You'd have to bend over. Every time you jump around, you come close to losing something. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 7 min 47 sec )

RealVideo Clip by Mick Hyde (3 min 04 sec)

167:27:35 Cernan: (Arriving with the tongs and picking up the first sample bag) I'll just take them back there. Put them under the seat.

167:27:38 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) You want me to take that one?

167:27:42 Cernan: (Now getting the second sample bag) No, I got it.

167:27:43 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause)

[They head toward the Rover.]

[Cernan - "Coming down those shallow slopes is poetry in motion. That's productive use of your time. If you could do something like helicopter skiing - have somebody drop you off at the top and pick you up at the bottom - you could really cover a lot of territory."]

[Schmitt - "In that Essex study, my proposal for the Mars part of it was that you have a Rover that you can run either manually or automated. So if the pair were out working, you could have somebody else, say back at the base or the lander, remotely move it to where you want it. And then, after you leave, it can be operated remotely from Earth or from Mars orbit. I don't think it would be a big weight penalty; all it is, is electronics."]

[Another sample falls out of Jack's SCB. It comes out in the forward direction and into Jack's field-of-view before it hits the ground. He stops and turns to look.]

167:28:00 Parker: You got another one dropped there, Gene. Jack got it.

167:28:04 Cernan: Another one?

167:28:06 Parker: Jack's getting it.

167:28:07 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

[Jack gets the fallen sample with the scoop and carries it back to the Rover as in an egg-and-spoon race.]

167:28:23 Schmitt: (Holding the sample, still in the scoop, up to the TV) Have a sample.

167:28:27 Cernan: Okay. Let me take your bag off first.

167:28:31 Schmitt: Okay. Well, you might as well fill it as full as you can.

167:28:33 Cernan: Yeah, I am. (Marveling at the weight of Jack's SCB as he starts to take it off) Holy Smoley! (Laughing) Turn to the left. (Pause) Okay. It's off. Let me fill it. (Pause)

[Gene is at Jack's seat with the SCB. Jack goes to the gate.]

167:29:00 Parker: Roger. We'd like to have you check the Commander's bag. You might put them both under the seat there.

167:29:08 Schmitt: Well, we're running out of bags, aren't we?

167:29:10 Parker: Okay. We've got one bag left...we should have there. It was on the gate, right?

167:29:19 Schmitt: Okay...

167:29:19 Cernan: Yeah. We had put it (the SCB which had been on the gate) under the seat. Okay, bag number 4 (which Jack has been wearing) is absolutely full. (Pause) and it's under Jack's seat.

167:29:40 Parker: Okay. I suggest that you take the other bag that's on the gate there, and put that on either you or Jack. And also, the Commander's bag is pretty full also, we suspect.

[Gene has removed an empty SCB, from under Jack's seat.]

[The reason, of course, is that Jack is doing most of the sampling while Gene holds the sample bags and then puts them in Jack's SCB.]

167:29:56 Parker: You might check Gene's bag anyway.

167:30:00 Cernan: Stay there, stay there. I'm trying to get the bottom hook.

167:30:03 Schmitt: Oh, I'm sorry. (To Bob) I checked it. He's got about six samples to go.

167:30:11 Parker: Okay. And...

167:30:12 Schmitt: And I just want to be sure that it's locked down. (Pause)

167:30:17 Cernan: Okay. Well, turn to the left so I can get this other hook. (Pause) Okay. It's not coming out; I guarantee you that. Now...

167:30:27 Parker: Okay. And SCB-5 is one for the LMP if you want to take it off the gate.

167:30:29 Cernan: ...(garbled) check yours one more time. And that's locked.

167:30:34 Schmitt: We got it.

167:30:35 Cernan: (Turning so that Jack can check his SCB) SCB-5 is on the LMP.

167:30:37 Parker: Okay. Copy that.

167:30:39 Cernan: There is nothing on the gate. (Pause)

167:30:44 Schmitt: Well, I think that (Gene's SCB top)'ll stay down, but it's not very good...

167:30:46 Cernan: Okay. I've got one more loose sample I'm going to throw in the big bag back there. You happy (with the SCB)?

167:30:51 Schmitt: (Referring to the loose sample) A local one, you mean?

167:30:52 Cernan: Yeah.

167:30:53 Schmitt: Well...

167:30:54 Cernan: Well, let me leave it under your seat.

167:30:56 Schmitt: No, let's...Can I put a bag around it?

167:30:57 Cernan: No, it's got a bag around it. It's all bagged. It's right there.

167:31:00 Schmitt: (Garbled)

167:31:00 Parker: (Seeing Jack standing idle) Okay. Jack, while Gene's doing that, why don't you read the SEP temperature, or somebody read the SEP temperature anyway, and close the blankets.

167:31:09 Schmitt: Okay. I'll do that. (Pause)

167:31:14 Cernan: Okay, Bob. Let's see, you got your (gravimeter) readings...

167:31:20 Schmitt: 120, Bob, 120.

167:31:22 Parker: Copy. 120.

167:31:26 Schmitt: Those blankets just aren't staying closed. (Pause)

167:31:33 Cernan: Okay. I guess we're ready to head on out. Do you agree?

167:31:36 Parker: Okay. And, Gene, when you go to change the LCRU, we'd like you to turn it to Off. O-F-F, on the Power switch, the Internal Power, External switch. And we'll be reading you through the LM. It will give you a chance to cool down the LCRU on the way home to Station 9.

167:31:57 Cernan: All right.

167:32:00 Schmitt: And, Houston, what's the temperature limit on the DSEA (the SEP Data Storage and Electronics Assembly)?

167:32:08 Parker: Stand by, Jack. (Long Pause)

[Schmitt - "I think that I was getting so that I didn't quite trust Houston. They kept having us fool around with the SEP and my feeling was that it was probably gone. So I'm trying to prod them a little bit, having just told them that it was 120 (degrees) and my memory, at the time, was probably that that was way outside the limits. Literally, the science room was leading us down the garden path on the SEP, because all this SEP stuff we were doing was wasting time. It had quit working when? Sometime in the first EVA, didn't it? As with the (long-period) gravimeter, they should have bit the bullet far sooner than they did. They knew what the limits were, but they kept having us dust it and tape it!"]

[At 167:59:07, Parker will tell the crew that the SEP receiver turns itself off at 108 degrees. The temperature was 103 degrees at 163:43:51 at the start of the EVA but was 110 degrees by the time they got to Station 6. According to the Preliminary Science Report, the receiver switch was - unfortunately - in the Standby position, and no data was obtained during that drive. We note that Jack had reported putting the switch in the On position at the start of the traverse at 164:19:32. According to the Preliminary Science Report, some data had been recorded during EVA-2 on the outbound drive to Station 2 and on the inbound drive from Station 4. The crew reported a SEP temperature of 105 degrees when they got to Station 2. We note that the SEP temperature was 112 degrees throughout the inbound EVA-2 traverse, higher than the supposed cutoff, and yet data was supposedly obtained.]

[TV off.]

[Schmitt - "I was wearing my visor with the lower edge at about eye level and, with it there, all you're getting is indirect sunlight reflected off the surface. And you don't go around staring at the Sun, anyway."]

[The Sun elevation is about 38 degrees. It was 13 degrees at landing.]

167:32:26 Parker: Roger. We read you through the LM. Do you read us through the LM?

167:32:31 Cernan: Yeah. Not as well, but we're reading you.

167:32:33 Parker: Okay. And the temperature limit, Jack, is 160. We'll just leave it as is until we get back to the LM.

[This may be a temperature at which physical damage may occur to some of the SEP components. Bob doesn't mention the 108 degree shut off until 167:59:07, when they get to Station 9.]

167:32:46 Cernan: Okay. An EMU status check. I'm at 3.88 (psi suit pressure), and I got 48 percent (oxygen), no (warning) flags, and I'm Intermediate cooling.

167:32:58 Parker: Copy that.

167:33:00 Schmitt: And the LMP is at 47 percent, no flags, 3.86. Hey, Gene?

167:33:12 Cernan: Yeah.

167:33:13 Schmitt: Well...Bob, I guess...Remind us to change the LRV Sampler (the "Dixie cup" sampler) at the next station. It's almost out of bags.

167:33:20 Parker: Okay.

167:33:21 Cernan: Well, let's do it next time around.

167:33:23 Parker: Okay. When you get on, Jack, you can give me a frame count as you start moving.

167:33:28 Schmitt: Yep. (Pause) (To Gene, who has fallen) Hang on. Need some help?

167:33:39 Cernan: (Nonchalant) Nope.

167:33:41 Schmitt: Go downhill. Get your feet downhill.

167:33:43 Cernan: Yep. (Pause) Okay.

167:33:50 Schmitt: Let me help you.

167:33:51 Cernan: (Laughs)

167:33:56 Schmitt: Watch it, there's a crater right behind you.

167:33:58 Cernan: I got it. I got it. (Pause)

167:34:03 Schmitt: Here. Here. Grab my hand.

167:34:07 Cernan: Okay, now, just push up on my head.

[By pushing back on the front of Gene's helmet, Jack can get him rotating back over his knees.]

167:34:14 Cernan: It's all right; just push up. Okay. Okay.

167:34:19 Schmitt: (Chuckling) Boy, are you...(Chuckling) You('ve) got your pockets completely filled with dirt.

167:34:23 Cernan: Well, extra sample.

167:34:25 Schmitt: Do we throw those pockets away this time around?

167:34:28 Cernan: (Laughing) Extra sample. (Pause)

167:34:30 Schmitt: Are you a mess!

167:34:31 Cernan: (Laughs) Well, that one was coming for a long time!

167:34:33 Schmitt: My hands are already tired from dusting you.

167:34:37 Cernan: That one was coming. I keep trying to blow the dust off my camera, which is very frustrating.

167:34:42 Schmitt: Very ineffective, too. (Pause)

[Cernan - "At least I fell off-camera."]

MP3 Audio Clip ( 17 min 44 sec )

167:35:20 Parker: We'll deploy one at Station 10.

167:35:23 Schmitt: Okay. I'm in. (Pause)

[Cernan - "I don't remember this particular event but..."]

[Schmitt - "I can't believe I don't remember it."]

[Cernan - "It may be that I just fell on my ass trying to get on the Rover. But I never had problems getting up, and that's why I'm confused as to what this is."]

[Gene takes a moment to re-read the dialog starting at 167:33:28.]

[Schmitt - "The thing I don't understand is why you couldn't do a push-up."]

[Cernan - "I don't understand either. I just don't recall that at all."]

[Schmitt - "You know what it may have been? You may have started to kick to get on the Rover, then fell, and you were lying next to the Rover..."]

[Cernan - "Caught by the slope against the Rover."]

[Schmitt - "Yes. Which meant you couldn't rotate backwards. And my gratuitous advice was to get your feet downhill! (General laughter) And you must have had a feeling at some other time - probably Station 6 or 7 - that you were coming close to missing (the seat)."]

[The dialog at 166:48:26 and following indicates that Gene parked the Rover pointed into the hill and without much of a sideslope. This suggests that Gene fell with his feet uphill. To get up by himself, he had to get his feet pointed downhill - as Jack suggested - and, because he had the Rover next to him, getting turned around would have been difficult.]