EVA-3 Close-out

Return to Orbit

 

Post-EVA-3 Activities

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1995 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Audio clips by Dave Shaffer.
Last revised 30 September 2014.

MP3 Audio Clip starting at 170:44:44 ( 18 min 37 sec )

[They are now on Surface Checklist page 7-1.]

170:44:59 Cernan: Well, it's locked now. Can you get your own water? If not, I'll get it.

170:45:02 Schmitt: I doubt it. Haven't been able to before.

170:45:07 Cernan: Okay, I'll get it.

[Schmitt - "I don't remember exactly where the shutoff was, but I just never could reach it. Maybe not even in training. With his longer arms, Gene could handle it. I was probably standing facing the rear - which would have made it easy for him to get to the shutoff. Or, maybe I was facing inboard helping him with the door. It would have been a whole lot easier with more room in the LM; of course, (laughing) the suit probably would have expanded to fill it. Parkinson's Law applied to lunar modules."]

[Parkinson's Law - : "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion." was first published in a 1955 essay by Cyril Northcote Parkinson.]

[Schmitt (continuing) - "It disturbs me that I did training for this for over a year and it didn't get permanently imbedded in long-term memory. I wonder if actors remember their scripts? Probably not. It's probably all short-term stuff, except for pieces. But still, I trained for Apollo 15 - the same procedures. So it was 30 months and, God knows how many of these (rehearsals) we really did in that period of time. We never memorized the checklist - never tried to. The fact is, that would have been a bad thing to do, to work from memory. You'd be taking a risk of forgetting something. That's why you had the cue cards. But it's strange; why would I not remember having that difficulty (with the feedwater shutoff)."]

[On Apollo 12, Pete Conrad and Al Bean tended to work from memory rather than the cue cards and forgot steps on a couple of occasions. In each instance, they had to use the cue cards to backtrack and take care of all the necessary steps.]

170:45:10 Cernan: Let me see. (Pause) Mine's off. No, wait a minute. (Pause) Mine's off. (Pause)

170:45:24 Schmitt: No, I can't get it.

170:45:27 Cernan: Okay. I'll get it for you. Not now. Before you move any more, let me get over here out of the way.

170:45:32 Parker: Okay. And pay attention here, 17, when you come on, we'd like you to leave Press Reg A which is the one that's been Off...We'd like to leave that closed.

170:45:41 Cernan: (To Jack) Turn around.

170:45:41 Parker: Just use Press Reg B (garbled).

170:45:44 Cernan: Okay, Bob.

170:45:47 Schmitt: Get it, Geno?

170:45:48 Cernan: Turn some more, I can almost reach it. Another...

170:45:49 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause)

[The three PLSS water controls - the feedwater diverter valve and the primary and auxiliary On/Off levers - are located on the lower right front corner, with the diverter valve being at the corner and the other two being inboard from it on the front edge. The levers have dramatically different shapes so that they can be easily distinguished by feel.]

170:45:55 Schmitt: Okay.

170:45:56 Cernan: Okay, Bob...

170:45:58 Schmitt: No, no. The Prim(ary) water.

170:46:00 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

170:46:03 Schmitt: (Garbled).

170:46:08 Cernan: Standby. (Pause) Your Prim water's Off.

170:46:10 Schmitt: Is your Prim Off?

170:46:13 Cernan: Yep. It's Off. Okay. (Pause) Okay. (Reading) PLSS Prim water closed. Forward hatch Closed and Locked. Okay, I've got to get the upper (dump) valve, Jack. Move in.

170:46:25 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) How's that?

170:46:29 Cernan: Oh, that ought to do it. (Pause) It's Auto and I've got the lock on it. (Pause) Okay. Now, Bob, say again which Reg A you want left.

170:46:51 Schmitt: Reg A left closed, I got it.

170:46:54 Parker: That's affirm, Jack.

170:46:56 Schmitt: Go ahead.

170:46:57 Cernan: Okay, dump valves are both Auto...Cabin Repress, Auto.

170:46:59 Schmitt: Cabin Repress, Auto.

170:47:01 Cernan: Okay, and I've got plenty of (PLSS) oxygen so we're in good shape for an Auto Repress.

170:47:04 Cernan: Cabin Repress breaker Closed on 16.

170:47:07 Schmitt: Okay, Cabin Repress, Closed.

170:47:12 Cernan: Come on, baby, there it comes. Half a psi. Okay, it is increasing. (Repress becomes audible) You can go to Cabin on the regulator.

170:47:24 Schmitt: Reg B.

170:47:27 Cernan: Yeah, just the one regulator your using. (Pause) 1.5 (psi).

170:47:33 Schmitt: Reg B is in Cabin.

170:47:35 Cernan: Okay, she's coming up. There's 2.0. Your next move will be to get your PLSS O2, Off. (Pause)

170:47:51 Cernan: 2.5 (psi). Okay, get your PLSS O2, Off. (Pause) Mine's Off. Get it? We'll be soft-suited shortly. (Pause) Just get around. I'll get it for you.

170:48:13 Schmitt: I think that I've got it. (Pause) There I got it.

[The oxygen control is on the chest-mounted RCU.]

170:48:23 Schmitt: I'm watching. (Pause) Five (psi).

170:48:xx Cernan: Okay. 5.0.

170:48:xx Schmitt: 5.0.

170:48:xx Cernan: Boy, it got hot in here, didn't it? Okay, purge valve to Depress; verify your circuit breakers.

170:48:xx Schmitt: Say again, that last one.

[Schmitt - "When Gene gets business-like, he sometimes talks too fast."]

170:48:40 Schmitt: Oh, yeah. No.

[They are now at the top of the right-hand column of Surface 7-1. According to plan, they should be at 169:40 minutes into the mission and are, therefore, still about an hour behind, as they were at the start of the EVA. The planned start of the rest period is at 174:39 and they will actually start it at about 175:20, having gained back about a half hour. Because their workload between wake-up and launch is fairly light, they are in very good shape.]

170:48:45 Schmitt: No White Dots (in). (Pause)

170:48:57 Cernan: Okay, I'm squared away there. (Pause) (Are you) squared away?

170:49:03 Schmitt: Standby.

170:49:04 Cernan: Okay.

170:49:05 Schmitt: Looks good.

170:49:06 Cernan: Stay at (circuit breaker panel) 16 now, ECS Suit Fan 2, Closed?

170:49:08 Schmitt: Suit Fan 2's Closed.

170:49:09 Cernan: Suit Fan Delta-P, Closed.

170:49:10 Schmitt: Closed.

170:49:11 Cernan: Caution lights are on, that's good. Until the Sep(arator)...Wait, ECS Caution...They'll go out when it (the Separator) winds up. Doff gloves, stow on comm panel. Oh, oh! Sweet music to my ears.

[Schmitt - "This sounds like Gene's hands were bothering him. Whatever he might have said later, he was happy to get those gloves off."]

170:49:28 Cernan: I know. It's still sweet music.

170:49:32 Schmitt: Come on, now.

[Once they get hooked up to the LM ECS and get their PLSSs off, they will put their gloves back on so that they can depressurize the cabin, open the hatch, and jettison the PLSSs and other unneeded gear.]

[Schmitt - "There was dust on everything we wore. Gene succeeded in falling and I did too - several times. The helmets had a lot of dust on them, and I suspect we got them pretty badly scratched. I don't remember the scratches very well, but we did talk about it a couple of times. However, the dust we brought in was almost all on the floor; it didn't come up and permeate the LM until we went weightless after lift-off. And then there was a lot of it. After the EVAs, there was dust flying around because, at least on the first EVA, I had a reaction to breathing it; but I don't remember there being a noticeable film of it on the instruments or anything else."]

[A 2005 Ulrich Lotzmann photo ( 202k ) of Jack's LEVA with the sun visor down shows some of the scratches.]

["What Gene was saying about Ron is that we had to take one of the helmet covers (that is, one of the LEVAs) up to him so he could use it on his EVA to retrieve the film packets from the Scientific Instrument Bay (in the Service Module). Ron would never have admitted to anything (like a scratched visor) that would have kept him from doing his EVA. That was his next big thing; that's what he was really looking forward to."]

[Cernan - "Once we got to orbit, I don't think the dust was as bad as I was afraid it would be. We were concerned and were thinking about wearing our helmets to keep the dust out through the whole lift-off and rendezvous. We did wear them for lift-off, but I don't think we did for rendezvous."]

170:50:35 Schmitt: Ah, I did it! Patience. Maximum effort. (Pause)

170:50:48 Cernan: There's one. (Long Pause)

170:51:02 Schmitt: Okay, (my) gloves are off.

170:51:05 Cernan: My gloves are off. We're right there (on the cue card). (Pause)

170:51:10 Schmitt: Okay, "verify safety on the dump valve". I'll do that. (Pause) Okay, I verify that, there. (Garbled).

170:51:20 Cernan: We want to take a double look at something down there.

170:51:24 Schmitt: (Garbled). It's locked.

[They have been using the overhead valve and what may be happening here is that Jack first checked the safety on the overhead valve and is now verifying the safety on the hatch valve.]

[Training photo KSC-72PC-540 shows the overhead valve at the upper right.]

170:51:35 Schmitt: Yep. Okay, Descent H2O valve, Open.

170:51:44 Cernan: Okay, "Descent H2O valve, Open."

170:51:46 Schmitt: That's Open.

170:51:47 Cernan: "Remove purge valves, stow in purse." (Pause)

170:51:57 Schmitt: Okay.

170:52:00 Cernan: Okay, "disconnect OPS hose." (Long Pause) Oh boy! That lock/lock is just tight on there, Jack.

170:52:26 Schmitt: It is. (Pause) Got it.

170:52:39 Cernan: Your's Off?

170:52:40 Schmitt: Yeh.

170:52:41 Cernan: Okay. "Connect LM hoses, red to red, and blue to blue." We've got to do that this time, because we've got to dump the PLSSs. Okay?

170:52:49 Schmitt: Okay. Let me turn around here.

170:52:51 Cernan: Let me get out of your way.

170:52:52 Schmitt: I'll get back in here.

170:52:54 Cernan: Okay, I'm out of the way now.

170:52:57 Schmitt: How would you like to get off the PLSS water and get some spacecraft water, too?

170:53:02 Cernan: Oh, that's the next thing. Suit Isol(ation Valve) to Suit Flow, On; and then we'll put PLSS pump and fan Off. Then we'll disconnect the PLSS water and connect spacecraft water. (Pause)

[The switches for the PLSS pumps and fans are on the chest-mounted RCUs. Note that, after the second EVA Gene and Jack commented about something being hot. One possibility is that the hot object was an RCU. If so, it is notable that there is no comment about heat here.]

[Schmitt - "Driving back from Station 5, the RCUs would have been facing into the Sun. Driving back from Station 9, they would be shaded. So you probably won't find that comment here. I don't remember if I've mentioned this but, on the long drive coming back from Station 4, I noticed the warmth of the Sun penetrating the suit on my forearm. I would ride with my forearm more or less across my chest. There was a shoulder detent that let you do that so that you could work out in front of your chest. Riding in the Rover I'd just rest my right arm in that detent. So, during the drive back into the Sun from Station 4 to Station 5 and then on to the LM, I noticed the warmth - finally - penetrating the seven layers of Mylar and warming that forearm. And it really felt good - a little therapy for those sore forearm muscles. I was probably using my left hand to take pictures and wouldn't have had that arm in the detent."]

[Cernan - "I know what Jack's saying, but I think that "detent" is the wrong word. There was enough friction (in the cabling) that you could put your arm in certain places and it would stay there, but I don't think there were any detents."]

[Joe Kosmo, a suit expert at NASA Johnson agrees that there were no detents. In detail, there was a pair of cables - one for the right arm and one for the left - which were attached at the center of the chest and ran over to the arm pit, then through a tube that ran up over the shoulder blade and down onto the back, and then over to a tie down at the center of the back. Friction between the cable and the tubing let them maintain a desired arm position without having the work against the internal pressure of the suit. The shoulder tubes can be seen in a photo (scan by Ed Hengeveld) from a suit fit session which shows a subject - probably Jack - seated on a minimalist Rover mock-up. Photo 72-H-253 shows Gene raising his arms during a suit fit check. The tube on his left shoulder is clearly visible. Note the small pulley apparently at the entrance to the tube on his right shoulder. In 72-H-314 a similar pulley seems to be present on the subject's left shoulder and these pulleys may have been included in the design to reduce binding and/or abrasion at the entrances to the tubes. Ron Evans does not have similar pulleys on his suit.]

170:53:19 Cernan: I can't reach it though.

170:53:21 Schmitt: Oh, okay. I can get it, I think.

170:53:23 Cernan: I can get it. (Pause) Okay, I got them. (Pause) Okay, we want red to red and blue to blue. (Pause) We got to verify these, too, because...

170:53:42 Schmitt: Yep.

[They want to make sure that they have the hoses hooked up properly before they depressurize the cabin for the jettison.]

170:53:53 Parker: You bet, I wouldn't leave for the world.

170:53:58 Cernan: Okay.

170:54:02 Schmitt: Okay, I'm hooked up and locked.

170:54:04 Cernan: Okay.

170:54:05 Schmitt: You want to verify? And I'll do it for you, if you want.

170:54:07 Cernan: Okay, see if you can't find this one. See it?

170:54:13 Schmitt: Yeah.

170:54:14 Cernan: Here, verify the red one. Okay.

170:54:20 Schmitt: In and locked.

170:54:20 Cernan: Got the red one, locked. (Pause)

170:54:27 Schmitt: Locked.

170:54:26 Cernan: Okay. Let me take a look at yours. (Pause) Locked. (Pause) Locked.

170:54:42 Schmitt: Okay.

170:54:45 Cernan: Okay, now...

170:54:45 Schmitt: Ready for Suit Flow?

170:54:46 Cernan: Yes, sir; Suit Flow on both of them.

170:54:50 Schmitt: Okay.

170:54:51 Cernan: Oh man, it feels great!

170:54:52 Schmitt: Yes, sir.

170:54:53 Cernan: PLSS pump Off and PLSS fan Off.

170:54:55 Schmitt: PLSS fan's Off; pump's Off.

170:54:57 Cernan: Okay. Disconnect PLSS water from PGA. Connect the LM water. Boy, I never thought air could feel so cool.

170:55:05 Schmitt: Yeah.

170:55:06 Cernan: Okay, the PLSS water is disconnected. I think that's mine. Yeah, that's mine. Spacecraft water. (Pause) Okay. Mine's connected. (Pause)

170:55:33 Schmitt: How about pushing on that (spacecraft water hose to seat it in the connector)?

170:55:35 Cernan: Okay.

170:55:37 Schmitt: Get it?

170:55:40 Cernan: Yeah, but I want to see it first. (Pause)

170:55:44 Schmitt: Watch your helmet. You're going to scratch it.

170:55:47 Cernan: Got it.

170:55:48 Schmitt: You don't have your visor down. Neither do I.

170:55:49 Cernan: Okay, connect...Okay, PLSS mode O. Bob, we're both going off the air. We'll get on LM comm.

170:55:56 Parker: Okay. We'll be waiting for you. We're here.

[They are about to start the steps on Surface 7-2.]

170:56:03 Schmitt: How about some cooling?

[Schmitt - "Between here and about 171:01, it sounds like there was some recovery in my voice from the let down of getting back in and struggling to get the LM configured and pressurized and stuff like that. By 171:01, I sound much more businesslike."]

170:56:56 Cernan: You read me, Jack? (No answer) You read me? (No answer; Long Pause) Read me?

170:57:42 Schmitt: (Faint) You're loud and clear.

170:57:43 Cernan: Okay. Next thing, VHF B...Wait a minute. You get the audio breaker, Open...Closed...Okay...VHF squelch B LMP. Okay, noise threshold, plus one and a half. (Pause) Yeah.

170:58:03 Cernan: Okay. Audio, both panels. VHF A, Receive, and B, Off. (Pause) A, Receive and B is Off here. Okay, mode ICS/PTT (Intercomm System, Push-to-Talk)

[Comm Break]

171:01:12 Parker: Roger, 17. We copy you loud and clear on LM comm. (Long Pause)

171:01:45 Parker: And 17. Jack and Gene, we have a couple of - in fact, we have three - records here to read out to you guys. On Apollo 17, two of them. One, the longest single EVA, 7 hours 37 minutes and 22 seconds. The longest total lunar surface EVA time 22 hours 5 minutes and 6 seconds. And a summary: the total lunar surface EVA time for the Apollo Program, 80 hours 44 minutes and 8 seconds.

171:02:10 Cernan: That's quite a tribute to the people who made it possible. I'll tell you. Thank you, Bob.

171:02:15 Parker: Roger, Geno. And I can't speak as authoritatively as some people have tonight, but for all of us around me, I'll say thank you, also.

171:02:30 Cernan: Your words are well taken. You know how I feel. (Long Pause)

[Bob Overmyer takes over briefly as CapCom. Throughout the Mission, he has been one of the Command Module CapComs. Houston has said goodnight to Ron Evans, who is near LOS on his 42nd orbit.]

171:03:32 Schmitt: Excellent. Tell him we'll see him tomorrow.

171:03:35 Overmyer: Yeah, he's counting on it. (Pause)

[Ron Evans is now about 20 minutes into his rest period. His observations of Shorty were made at 166:17.]

CapCom: Are you getting the landing site into view now?

Evans: I got it in window 2. (Pause) Okay. I've got Shorty in the picture. It looks like a sharper crater than any of them in the pentagon complex. The other one that looks sharp, just like that one, is F crater. (Pause) Back to the other window. Did they kind of find that orange stuff on the north side of it?

CapCom: Let me check on that, Ron. I'll be back with you in a second.

[The phrase "pentagon complex" is one that only Ron uses and, apparently, refers to a pentagonal pattern of craters around the target point. Looking from the east, the base might be formed by East Trident and the unnamed crater north of the SEP, then Holden on the north arm, an unnamed doublet between Powell and Camelot on the south, and Camelot, itself, forming the west apex of the pentagon. There are many other possibilities in the area, but this one has the advantage of being symmetric around the CSM ground track.]

CapCom: I don't think so; their stop was at...Station 4 was on...

Evans: (Garbled) I'll get (garbled)

CapCom: ...Station 4 was on the south side of it. Just go ahead with what you see and...

Evans: I'd say they just barely got into the stuff, then, becau(se)...But it...But it looks like...Kind of the north rim of it has more of a...a tint of a different color to it. I (garbled) my pictures.

CapCom: Is the color differentiation concentric around the crater or is it just in...in splotches?

Evans: No. It's just in the...kind of the north side of it.

CapCom: What would you say the color is, then? Is it one of the "different" tans?

Evans: Yes, the color...(Chuckles) Yes, it's kind of a different...Would you believe kind of an orangish tan through these binocs? I got to take another look at that when I go by the next time.

CapCom: Roger, I'm with you. (Pause) Ron, when you get back...when you get done with this, we'd like you to sketch - when you get a chance - the color variations... just some thoughts on where the color splotches are with respect to Shorty, in particular.

Evans: Okay. I'll do that when I finish up here.

[A few moments later, Ron reports seeing a "sharp crater" in the area "from Tacquet on down to Menelaus or Melinor" that had "an ejecta almost the same color as the stuff around Shorty". Then, at 166:48 after he has crossed the terminator into lunar night, he has the following conversation with Houston.]

CapCom: Farouk just came out and said "a really good show". He's really excited about what you saw there; and we're really pleased with it.

Evans: I think I said north and as I look at the map - the orange distribution goes generally about a crater diameter to the north, but it essentially starts...Well, if you cut on a 60-degree angle from (map coordinate) Dog Sierra at 63...cut a 60-degree angle there and then make that go around about a crater diameter.

CapCom: Okay, to the north at Dog Sierra at 63? Yeah, I've got it.

Evans: On TL-50. And, if you're looking at the thing from the bottom (from the east), the right (north) side is 0...go up 60 degrees. You're 60 degrees up from the horizontal and 30 degrees down from the vertical. It'll be something like that.

CapCom: Okay.

Evans: It had kind of a brownish-orange tint to it.

CapCom: Ron, I guess one of the things that at least goes through Stu (Roosa)'s and my mind on that Shorty Crater - and I think you dispelled it when you said it goes out like a 60-degree angular cone away from it. But the question we'd really like to be thinking about...Is that concentric coloring around there? Like it might have been just a layering from a flap ov(erturn)...(correcting himself) you know, a turned-over flap or something like that, or whether it just seems to be some sort of a...I don't want to say "flow", but something that would give it the 60 degree direction like that.

Evans: Yes, I see what you're saying. And it almost looked to me like it was gradational, as you went away from the crater. In other words, more...more orangish...more orangish closer...closer to the crater than as you got away from it.

171:03:45 Overmyer: Well, I'll give an update. It's working perfect. No problems at all and we got good SIM bay data on everything. The UV, the IR, the Lunar Sounder. And every data point we can see is just great. It's just hardly any anomalies at all. Everything is just wonderful.

171:04:05 Cernan: Outstanding! (Pause)

[Schmitt - "At the recent - 1991 - Lunar Science Conference, a paper was presented on taking a new look at the Lunar Sounder data. And, basically, when they tried to analyze the original data, they found they really didn't have the capability to analyze it very well. Some of the digitized data that was produced here on Earth after the film data came back has disappeared. The film data is still refrigerated and in the NASA archives. There was some holographic data - and I don't understand what that means with regard to this data - and another look is being taken at it. It looks like there is still some very interesting stuff in it about large-scale layering in the lunar mare. But the sad thing is that some of the digitized data was not retained in the archives. Hopefully, somebody is going to put some effort into redoing all that. We'll see. The Lunar Sounder was the granddaddy of the SIR system (Side-looking Imaging Radar) that flies on the Shuttle and looked at the Sahara, for example, and saw all those old water courses."]

171:04:43 Schmitt: I'll be back up there tomorrow and I'll stir them for you.

171:04:48 Overmyer: Roger.

[Schmitt - "On the way out to the Moon, I started doing some exercises in which I would lie underneath the couch and grip a cross strut and run in place against the back wall of the lower equipment bay and try and get my heart rate as high as I could - just for exercise. And the flight controllers responsible for the cryogenic tanks (in the Service Module) found that the vibration was causing the tanks to stir without turning on what they called the 'fan' inside of it."]

[Bob Parker rejoins Bob Overmyer at the CapCom Console.]

171:05:14 Cernan: Okay, Bob, I think we'll handle that one okay. (Long Pause)

[This is a reference to a slow leak in Pressure Regulator A noted during the post-EVA-2 period. Bob is suggesting that they put a piece of tape on the regulator as a physical reminder to keep it closed.]

[The Moon's gravity field is fairly irregular due to the presence of high density regions under some of the lunar mare. The detailed distribution of these "mascons" was not well known, particularly beneath the Farside track of America and the mission planners could only assume an average behavior based on what had happened to the Lunar Orbiters and the other Command Modules. After separating from Challenger prior to the descent, Evans fired the CSM engine to put himself in a 70 by 54 nautical mile orbit which was then expected to decay into a 60-mile circular orbit. As Overmyer says, the mascons did not cooperate and Evans will have to change the size of his orbit before the plane-change burn which will line him up with the planned ascent path of the LM.]

171:06:24 Overmyer: Well, yeah, I guess that's what it'll be. It's going to be an RCS burn at about 11 foot per second. It'll drop the...It'll circularize the orbit and then we'll do the plane change burn. (Pause)

171:06:40 Parker: Okay, and 17, we'd like you to press on reasonably diligently tonight. You're just about on schedule but if we can turn off this Marine (Overmyer), we'd like you guys to press on. We're looking at a nominal launch time and we've used up, of course, all the MCC (Mission Control Center)-H conference but we think you're within a few minutes of being right on. If you can press on like you did last night we'll be in great shape.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 16 min 17 sec )

171:07:09 Cernan: Okay, Bob. I never stopped doing what I wanted to do anyway even though a Marine was talking. (Pause)

[Schmitt - "Apparently, the MCC-H Conference was just a 60 minute pad they built into the flight plan in case we had to talk about lift-off or a LM problem of something like that."]

[Comm Break. They are performing the OPS checkout near the middle of the right-hand column of Surface 7-2.]

171:09:45 Parker: Okay, I copy that.

[They are checking the OPSs to see if they produce a proper regulated pressure. Each contains oxygen bottles pressurized at greater than 6000 psi and that pressure needs to be regulated down to the 3.8 psi that the suit is designed to handle. Jack's OPS is regulating at a pressure that is slightly higher than normal. Previously, Gene described plans for using the OPSs in case he and Jack were unable to dock with the Command Module and had to make a suited EVA transfer. If one or both of the OPSs fails this check of the regulators, they will keep one or both of the PLSSs rather than jettisoning them.]

[Schmitt - " I don't remember the backup plan for an EVA transfer and, as we were listening to this, I thought we were checking out the OPSs so that we could take one of them up for Ron to use for his EVA."]

[Cernan - "We did use an OPS as a backup for Ron's EVA. But Ron wore hoses for his EVA and was pressurized off of spacecraft oxygen. We would never have let him go out on the OPS alone. But, we had to bring the OPSs up any way, for our EVA contingency. We'd already paid the weight penalty to bring it up to orbit, so it made sense to use one as a backup for Ron. He was out there and exposed. He could have ripped his suit or a hose could have popped off."]

[Schmitt - "There was also a plan for using one of the OPSs if we had to hot-wire the LM. This last-ditch procedure was to take a line out to the batteries in the Descent Stage to Gene's circuit breaker panel to open the propellant valves. You didn't make the connection to the circuit breaker panel right away; because, as soon as you did, the valves would open and you'd be on your way. So you'd come back in (after connecting the wire to the batteries) and then, when you were finally ready to go, you'd touch the circuit breakers and hot-wire the hypergolic valves in the Ascent Stage. I think we went through that drill once to know where the batteries were."]

[Cernan - "It would have been a last ditch effort. The hatch would have been open and the wires would have ripped off."]

[When I told Ed Mitchell about this discussion, he said that he and Al Shepard were prepared to hot-wire the LM if necessary and had done a walkthrough during training.]

[Prior to Apollo 15, two of the four 400 A-h Descent Stage batteries were located in Quad I and and two others in Quad IV, which on either side of the ladder. Because of the addition of extra water and oxygen tanks to Quad IV for the J missions, these four batteries - plus a fifth, called Battery L which was also added for the J missions - where placed the back of the spacecraft. Consequently, the wire would have been a long one.See, for example, Scott Sullivan's excellent book, Virtual LM.]

171:09:51 Parker: Okay that.

171:09:52 Schmitt: That might be ...I started...Let me bleed it off and let me see what it regulates at next time. I didn't have my hose locked, Bob, and it came off the first try. (Pause)

[Schmitt - "To check the regulator, you had to have the hose blocked off and I was saying that I may not have done that. As I recall, there was a place you locked the hose in to seal it off; and then you opened the valve to see how it regulated into the hose. I interpret what I said here to mean that the hose wasn't locked down and that there was some flow out. But that would have given a lower regulated pressure; so, I don't understand this. Getting the check to come out right was important because, if you had to keep a PLSS, you might have to throw away some rocks!"]

[Cernan - "Obviously, it didn't concern us. If it was regulating at 4.25 it would have made your suit harder, but it still would have been okay. If it had been regulating at 2.0, it would have been something different."]

171:10:36 Cernan: Okay, we'll do that.

[Long Comm Break]

171:15:27 Parker: Is that a steady 4.25, Jack?

171:15:32 Schmitt: Yeah, it's done that twice now. (Pause)

171:15:41 Parker: Okay, and it's steady once you do a check, right?

171:15:47 Schmitt: Right. It's open now. We've been watching it for about a minute, now.

171:15:50 Parker: Okay, we'll go with it then, Jack.

171:15:56 Schmitt: Okay.

[Comm Break. Houston has decided that Jack's OPS is acceptable as is. Once they get the OPSs stowed and get the PLSSs positioned for the jettison, they will weigh the sample containers, just in case they have hauled in too many rocks and have to jettison some of the rocks along with the PLSSs. They are moving to the tasks on Surface 7-3.]

171:17:43 Parker: Okay we're ready to copy...

171:17:44 Cernan: ...It might take a couple minutes to get things squared away.

171:17:46 Parker: Okay give us a call. We're ready to copy the weights.

171:17:49 Cernan: Okay. (Long Pause)

171:18:30 Schmitt: Bob, sample (bag) 15 Echo has a bunch of dust that gradually accumulated in my (shin) pocket.

171:18:40 Parker: No fair, Jack! You can't go collecting samples after the EVA's over!

[Comm Break]

171:21:00 Parker: Okay, we note that. Thank you. Very good. (Long Pause)

[Sample Containment Bags were flown on the J missions to help reduce the amount of dust in the cabin. The Sample Collection Bags were put inside the Containment Bags. Photos of containment bags in the National Air & Space collection courtesy Allan Needell.]

171:21:56 Parker: Okay, or I think we could keep track of it otherwise; but that's fine.

171:22:03 Schmitt: That's for our reference too.

[Very Long Comm Break. During this break, they are weighing the sample containers.]

[Cernan - "Each pound mattered. I'm not saying that we would have thrown out a pound of rock. There were margins. But, weight translated into less Delta-V(elocity) and into fuel."]

171:36:34 Parker: Roger. We're ready. (Pause)

171:36:39 Cernan: Okay, bag 7 is 32 (pounds), bag 4 is 31.5, bag 5 is 21, the big bag is 71, the ISA is 22. (Pause)

[These are terrestrial weights, including the containers. The Interim Stowage Assembly (ISA) is a set of bags on a frame that normally hung behind Gene over his wall-mounted PLSS. An ISA can be seen on the left at Neil Armstrong's back in Apollo 11 training photo KSC-69PC-319. Of course, when Gene was donning or doffing his PLSS or when the rockboxes were being mounted on the wall in its place, the ISA was put somewhere convenient, usually against the hatch or aft of the engine cover, or was hung on the forward bulkhead over the DSKY. For launch, it will be attached to the aft bulkhead.]

171:37:27 Schmitt: That's affirm, and we're standing by for your Go for jettison. (Long Pause)

171:37:44 Parker: Okay 17. Challenger, we are ready for jettison.

171:37:53 Cernan: Roger. Understand.

[Comm Break. They will now assemble the equipment for jettison - as listed at the bottom of the left-hand column of Surface 7-3 - and then don their gloves, pressurize the suits, and perform a pressure integrity check before depressurizing the cabin.]

171:39:04 Cernan: How do you read, Bob?

171:39:06 Parker: Loud and clear, 17. And Challenger, we'd like to keep out the original BSLSS bag, the one that you launched with. We think we're going to need that to stow samples in.

171:39:19 Cernan: Okay, it's out (of the jettison bag)

171:39:21 Parker: Okay. Or, it's in (the spacecraft), we hope.

171:39:23 Schmitt: (To Gene) I've got it over here.

171:39:27 Cernan: Okay. (Pause) (Engineering data) Recorder, On.

171:39:29 Schmitt: Whichever way.

[They are near the top of the right-hand column of 7-3.]

171:39:32 Schmitt: Recorder's, On.

171:39:37 Cernan: Okay, don EV gloves. Let me...

[Each of them has two pair of EV gloves, but have only been using one pair. As we will see at 171:54:54 and 174:52:48, they will jettison the unused pair, a departure from the checklist which doesn't call for any glove jettison. After repress - as called out in the checklist - they doffed their used gloves and stowed them on the comm panel. Now, they have re-donned the used gloves in preparation for the depress. Apparently, they have also gotten the unused gloves out of storage - an action not called out in the checklist - but have not put them on.]

171:39:43 Cernan: ...see if I can't get a little grease, yet, out of some of these things. (Pause) Don your gloves, Jack, if you're...

[Gene wants to put some lubricant on his hands.]

171:39:57 Cernan: Oh.

171:40:00 Schmitt: Are we out of tape? (Pause)

171:40:05 Cernan: (Should) be 8 hours on it. (Pause)

171:40:10 Schmitt: I don't think I left it on. (Pause) Might have left it on. (Pause) I probably did, if it's on now. (Pause) I thought I read it in the checklist though. (Pause) Don Arabian will never forgive me!

[Schmitt - "Don ran a group of contractor representatives who were outside the Mission Control Building in the tall building to the west. I can't remember the building number. And they were there to support any engineering data analysis that had to be done. This recorder, I gather, was gathering a lot of LM engineering data. I remember the recorder but I can't tell you why it only had eight hours of tape on it. But I must have left it on when we went out."]

[A 2001 photo, courtesy Tom McKeever, shows Don Arabian working on his boat.]

171:40:47 Schmitt: (Laughs)

[Schmitt - "Knowing Bob, I think he was saying that we should jettison me! Don was not going to be pleased."]

[Schmitt - "This was a reference to Owen Morris, the head of the Lunar Module Project Office. Aaron Cohen watched over the Command and Service Module for George Low and Owen worked on the LM."]

171:41:03 Parker: Okay.

171:41:05 Schmitt: Because it was working when we prepped, I'm sure of that.

[According to the checklists, the recorder was supposed to be on during flight and during the hatch opening for each of the EVAs and equipment jettisons. Specifically, Jack was to turn the recorder on during the comm check that preceded helmet donning and then turn it off just before following Gene down to the surface. For each of the EVAs, the instruction to turn the recorder off was printed on the cuff checklist and, obviously, he missed the step at the start of this third EVA.]

171:41:14 Schmitt: I'll take my cuff checklists off. (Pause)

171:41:23 Cernan: Needless to say, you don't have to put your dust covers on, Jack. If that makes you feel better. (Pause) Oh, boy!

[Cernan - "The dust covers went over the wrist rings and were added to the program fairly late, I think, and maybe even for our flight. As I remember, they were a pain in the butt and I was adamantly against them. I was not happy about having one more piece of gear; and I remember that I got in some disagreements with some people about even having to carry them. But they wanted them to be part of the uniform and we did use them. And I will eat a little crow, because they did work better than I thought they would. Considering the amount of problems we had with dust, they did serve a good purpose."]

171:41:48 Cernan: Bob, how long were we out today, 7 what?

171:41:53 Parker: Stand by, we got it here someplace. 7 hours (pause while somebody in Houston finds the number) 7 hours 15 minutes and 31 seconds.

171:42:09 Cernan: How many kilometers did we put on the Rover?

171:42:12 Parker: We have an approximate total of about 36.1. (Pause)

171:42:20 Schmitt: Boy, this one (glove) is really getting stiff.

171:42:27 Cernan: Probably another 1/2 kilometer on that (total) when the Nav wasn't working.

[The Rover Navigation system wasn't in operation until after the initial drive out to the ALSEP. That drive plus Gene's 200 - 300 meter test drive out to the east and back would have added the half kilometer to his total.]

[For the next minute or so, they seem to be struggling with one of Jack's gloves.]

[Cernan - "Generally, we each put on one of our own gloves and then helped the other guy with his second glove. Although it was possible to get both of your own on, it was generally easier with the buddy system."]

171:42:45 Cernan: Are you opening or closing?

171:42:47 Schmitt: Closing; trying to.

171:42:49 Cernan: You don't have to push on the button to close it.

171:42:51 Schmitt: Well, yeah...

[Cernan - "There were a couple of buttons that you had to push down at the same time to unlock the wrist ring; but, to get the glove on, you just had to push it in and it snapped over. And then we had lock-locks on those gloves to make sure."]

171:4x:xx Schmitt: Now I know why I brought you.

171:4x:xx Cernan: Jack, did you put those gloves on?

171:4x:xx Schmitt: I don't know. I was listening to you for one thing. Boy, it is stiff though. Never get it off.

171:43:28 Cernan: I (garbled) this thing down there so it doesn't...

171:43:30 Schmitt: Wait a minute.

171:43:31 Cernan: ...tangle. (Long Pause)

171:43:51 Schmitt: Okay.

171:43:52 Cernan: I just don't want to (garbled). (Pause) All we need. (Long Pause) (Garbled).

[They may be leaning forward in the suits as they work on the gloves and aren't always triggering the voice-activated audio circuits.]

171:44:31 Cernan: (Garbled) hang down that. (Pause) Okay, EV gloves are donned. Let's check our PGA connectors. Do you want to check mine?

171:44:43 Schmitt: That's locked. (Pause) That's locked. Okay.

171:44:48 Cernan: Okay?

171:44:51 Schmitt: Helmet shouldn't have changed.

171:44:53 Cernan: Okay. That's locked; locked; locked; locked. (Pause) Over, I can't see. Locked.

171:45:09 Cernan: Okay, "Suit circuits shall not be maintained at elevated pressure greater than 5 minutes". Okay, we want to do an integrity check here. And we're not going to use Reg(ulator) A at all.

171:45:16 Schmitt: Right.

171:45:17 Cernan: Okay, Suit Gas Diverter (Valve), Pull Egress, verify.

171:45:20 Schmitt: Pull Egress.

171:45:22 Cernan: Now you can verify all that other stuff. Can you get it back there? Cabin Gas Return (Valve), Egress, verify.

171:45:26 Schmitt: Verified.

171:45:28 Cernan: And Suit Circuit Relief (Valve) is a Close. Close it.

171:45:32 Schmitt: Okay, it's going Closed. (Pause) Closed.

171:45:36 Cernan: Okay, Pressure Reg...Okay; let's leave A Off, and Pressure Reg B to Direct O2. (Garbled) 4.0, and then go to Egress, and we'll check on decay.

171:45:51 Schmitt: Okay, go on to...

171:45:53 Cernan: Wait a minute (garbled), I should have (garbled).

[Gene probably wants to unlock the hatch before pressurizing his suit.]

171:46:01 Cernan: Okay, it's unlocked. Okay. (Garbled)

171:46:06 Schmitt: (Garbled) Direct O2.

171:46:08 Cernan: Okay. (Long Pause)

171:46:26 Schmitt: How high do they want the suit?

171:46:29 Cernan: 3.7 to 4.0 (on the) cuff gauge.

171:46:30 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) Want some (drinking) water?

171:46:38 Cernan: It's coming up, slowly. (Pause) Yeah, you can give me some water. (Long Pause)

[We had some trouble deciding whether Jack was offering Gene some drinking water or whether he was offering to turn on the LCG pump. The water gun (photo by Mick Hyde) is behind Jack near the floor, while the LCG pump breaker is on the panel to his right. However, by opening the pump breaker, Jack would have been departing from the checklist and probably would have been less casual about his offer. Hence, I conclude that he had the water gun in hand. Gene would have taken the water gun and inserted it in the cheek port.]

171:47:05 Cernan: Okay, I'm off the peg. (Pause)

171:47:20 Schmitt: There, you're coming up on 3.5.

171:47:24 Cernan: Okay, when you hit 3.7. I'll be with you. So you can...

171:47:25 Schmitt: Okay 3.7.

171:47:29 Cernan: Okay. Mark it. One minute.

171:47:30 Schmitt: Okay.

171:47:34 Cernan: You did go Egress (on Press Reg B), right?

171:47:35 Schmitt: Yep.

171:47:36 Cernan: Okay. (Pause) (Garbled) it out?

171:47:46 Schmitt: (Laughs) (Pause) Well, it's supposed to be possible to do.

171:47:57 Cernan: Hope so, (garbled). (Pause)

171:48:16 Schmitt: There.

171:48:18 Cernan: Get it?

171:48:19 Schmitt: Yeah.

[They are watching the suit pressure decay in the usual manner, looking for less than a 0.3 psi decrease over one minute.]

171:48:42 Schmitt: Okay, suit...Watch your ears.

171:48:44 Cernan: Okay.

171:48:46 Schmitt: There.

[They are now setting the Suit Circuit Relief Valve to Auto - it was closed - and will feel the pressure adjustment as the suit circuit and the suits come into equilibrium.]

171:48:55 Schmitt: Okay, I had about two tenths (psi pressure decay).

171:48:58 Cernan: And I had two tenths. 3.7 to 3.5. Okay, let's make sure we got everything. You went to 4.0, then you went to Egress then we monitor. Suit Circuit Relief, Auto; pressure is decaying at 4.8. Okay, that's good. Okay. We're GO for cabin depress.

[They are now on Surface 7-4.]

171:49:27 Cernan: Okay, (on circuit breaker panel) 16 ECS Cabin Repress, Open.

171:49:21 Schmitt: Okay, Repress coming Open. Circuit breaker's open.

171:49:25 Cernan: Okay. This time I think I'll get this valve down here.

[Gene is saying that they can use the hatch dump valve rather than the overhead valve. Without the PLSSs on, they have a great deal more freedom of movement.]

171:49:30 Cernan: Huh?

171:49:31 Schmitt: Leave this in Auto?

171:49:34 Cernan: All you want is...

171:49:36 Schmitt: ...circuit breaker.

171:49:37 Cernan: ...16 Cabin Repress, Open.

171:49:38 Schmitt: Okay.

171:49:40 Cernan: "Overhead or forward dump valve Open and then Auto at 3.5."

171:49:44 Cernan: Get that one down there, now.

[Jack will open the forward dump valve while Gene watches the pressure gauge.]

171:49:48 Cernan: Okay, go ahead. I'll give you a call at 3.5. (Pause) Circuit relief was Auto, right?

171:49:57 Schmitt: Yep.

171:49:58 Cernan: Had to...Okay. (Pause)

171:50:06 Schmitt: Okay, going Open.

171:50:09 Cernan: Okay, it's coming down. I want you (to go) Auto at 3.5, I give you a call my suit is going up. (Pause) Mark it. Okay, you're 3.5. "Verify cabin 3.5 and LM suit circuit locked up at 4.3 and decaying." Okay, it's about 4.6 and decaying. (Pause) How's it look to you, Houston?

171:50:33 Parker: Looks good to us, 17.

171:50:38 Cernan: Okay, Jack. Overhead...(Correcting himself) Make it the forward dump, Open. And I'll verify we lock up (garbled). (Pause) (Garbled) is decaying, the Auto's working. (Pause) Locking up, and the cabin's at 1. (Pause)

171:51:31 Cernan: Okay, hatch opening. Downward. (Pause)

171:51:43 Cernan: Jack, when I get the hatch partially opened, you can go to Auto on that valve. (Pause)

171:51:56 Schmitt: Still no good words about the gravimeter (the LSG), huh, Bob?

171:52:00 Parker: No, there's an outside chance that it's been a little cold. And they're hoping that if it warms up, that it may take care of itself; but, no, everybody's very sad about that.

171:52:15 Schmitt: Well, I could have sprinkled dirt on it, maybe. (Pause)

[The idea is to make the gravimeter darker so that it would warm up by absorbing more sunlight.]

171:52:37 Schmitt: Still about 0.2. (Pause) Okay, you want that in Auto?

171:52:43 Cernan: I can get it (the dump valve on the forward hatch) from here.

171:52:44 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause)

171:52:55 Cernan: And the lock/lock's on. Turn around over here. Boy I wish it'd take some of that dust out. (Garbled) it.

171:53:02 Schmitt: Gotta turn. Wait (garbled). (Pause)

171:53:07 Cernan: The hatch is open, Houston.

171:53:10 Parker: Copy that.

171:53:12 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) Okay. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 15 min 21 sec )

171:53:20 Cernan: And Danny's not out there to hand us in the lightweight PLSSs!

[This is another reference to the mock-up PLSSs used during training and to suit engineer Danny Schaiewitz.]

[Schmitt - "The PLSSs were handed in for egress training and we may not have had PLSSs in the cabin, just to protect the equipment."]

171:53:24 Schmitt: Okay. Here goes the old...Whose PLSS is this now?

171:53:28 Cernan: Well, look at it, if you want a memory.

171:53:31 Schmitt: That must be yours; it's red. No, that's mine...No, it's yours. Here goes the old Commander's PLSS.

171:53:39 Cernan: Okay, baby thanks for doing a good job. And that was a backup PLSS too.

[Cernan - "The PLSSs were all the same but, for some reason, the decision was made quite late on to use my backup. I don't know what happened to the primary."]

171:53:46 Cernan: It walked down the ladder.

171:53:49 Schmitt: It went down as gracefully as you did.

[Schmitt - "I was leaning over the hatch and pushing the PLSS out with my hands. Gene was probably watching out the window. I don't think I could see down the ladder and just saw it bounce a little bit."]

171:53:55 Schmitt: Well, I can give you some of these. (Pause)

171:54:00 Cernan: Here hold...Okay.

171:54:02 Schmitt: Everything is in here.

171:54:04 Cernan: Okay. That's the first thing.

171:54:09 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) Okay. (Pause)

171:54:24 Cernan: (Garbled)...(Pause)

171:54:32 Schmitt: Beautiful gloves.

171:54:33 Cernan: Well, Houston, I think we ought to probably just mention, anyway. We are jettisoning two sets of EVA gloves. I think that's worth mentioning. Because they did their job!

171:54:49 Schmitt: Just like everything else did its job. Let me jettison mine.

171:54:54 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

[As indicated by a discussion at 174:52:48, they are both wearing their used EV gloves and have just jettisoned their unused gloves. The checklist does not call for any glove jettison. It does, however, call for boot jettison, which they seem not to have done.]

171:55:07 Parker: Okay, we copy two sets of EVA gloves to the surface for the last time.

171:55:07 LM Crew: (Garbled)

171:55:09 Cernan: They're very reluctant. (Laughs) What else have you got there?

171:55:12 Schmitt: ISS?

171:55:13 Cernan: (Garbled) together.

171:55:16 Schmitt: The other ISS. (Pause)

[The only reference we have been able to find to an ISS - other than Inertial Sensor System, which doesn't make sense in this context - is on page 7-3 in the surface checklist where the crew is instructed to "Remove ISS, Wrap & Tie the Following: Lunar Boots (4), RCUs (2), Armrest (1), Yo-Yo's (2)" and then on page 7-4 where they jettison the ISS along with the PLSSs. Gene and Jack think ISS may be Interim Stowage Shelf, perhaps a part of the Interim Stowage Assembly.]

[Note that neither of the yo-yos was actually discarded. Gene's was sold at auction in early 2006 for USD 50000.]

171:55:28 Cernan: That it?

171:55:28 Schmitt: Got one more thing.

171:55:30 Cernan: PLSS.

171:55:31 Schmitt: No wait.

171:55:33 Cernan: Oh, is there something (garbled)?

171:55:37 Schmitt: Watch it.

171:55:39 Cernan: (Garbled) this, I'll get it. (Long Pause)

171:56:00 Cernan: Okay, let's get this out.

171:56:04 Schmitt: Okay, the old LMP's PLSS.

171:56:08 Cernan: (Garbled) that OPS stays where it is.

171:56:15 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) Okay, get it down there and then put your foot against it and it'll probably go. (Pause) The only geologist's PLSS on the Moon. (Pause) (To Gene, who is kicking the PLSS out the hatch) Good boy. Have fun PLSS. Ooh. (Pause)

[Cernan - "I remember that one of the PLSSs sort of got hung up on the porch and I had to get way out with my leg to get it unstuck. You didn't have room to throw them out; you just had room to push them out."]

171:56:46 Schmitt: Okay...

[AS17-145- 22196, 22199, and 22211 show the jettisoned PLSSs. These photographs will be taken after Gene and Jack get out of their suits.]

171:56:51 Schmitt: Pretty good.

171:56:52 Cernan: Pretty good from here.

171:56:54 Schmitt: Too bad we don't have a broom (to sweep the dust out).

171:56:57 Cernan: Is that everything else? Nothing else here to go. Nothing behind you. Nothing here. (Pause) Okay! (Pause)

171:57:07 Schmitt: Hatch going closed. (Pause) Get to do this again tomorrow.

[They will do a very brief trash jettison in the morning.]

171:57:38 Schmitt: Okay, "Cabin Repress, Dump valve, both Auto, verify."

171:58:41 Cernan: They all are auto and locked.

171:58:45 Schmitt: Okay.

171:58:46 Cernan: "Cabin Repress, Auto. Verify."

171:58:48 Schmitt: Verified.

171:58:49 Cernan: "On 16, Cabin Repress, Closed."

171:58:52 Schmitt: Repress going Closed.

171:58:53 Cernan: "Master Alarm and Cabin Warning Light (should come) on." There it is. (Pause) Cabin's coming up. (Pause) Okay, it's increasing and you go to Cabin on that one reg.

171:59:13 Schmitt: Reg Bravo. Cabin.

171:59:21 Cernan: Okay. (Long Pause) Okay, cabin's coming. It's about 5 (psi). Okay, (warning) lights are off. Repress stopped. Cabin pressure stable. (Pause) Okay, Houston, Challenger; we're going to take off our gloves. (No answer; pause)

172:00:33 Schmitt: Hello, Houston. How does it look?

172:00:35 Parker: Roger. You look stable, and...Stand by. (Pause) Okay, you're Go to unsuit there, guys. (Pause)

172:00:58 Cernan: Speaking of suits. These things perform super! (Long Pause)

172:01:42 Cernan: Okay, and we can get our helmets off.

172:01:45 Schmitt: If I can ever get unsuited. (Pause) (Garbled; laughs) That's my hand. Let me try the other one.

172:01:57 Cernan: Oh, let me get it for you. I'm free here. No sense...Yeah, but I'm...(Both laugh) There. Okay.

172:02:05 Schmitt: The right one went easy last night. I think they're all really getting (dusty)...

172:02:11 Cernan: Oh, and the helmet is off, and I'm stowing it in the BRA! (Pause) Well, there's no changing our minds now (about a fourth EVA), the PLSSs are going to be hard to retrieve. (Pause) But you could if you had to, though.

[Both Gene and Jack have the impression that the BRA was hung in the back of the cabin. Charlie Duke joins the conversation.]

172:02:53 Cernan: (Thinking he's talking to John Young) Thank you, John. Appreciate the words, Jose. But we also appreciate your helping us get it this far.

172:03:05 Duke: (Retaliating) Roger, Neil.

172:03:12 Cernan: Hey, you know, and all those things you tell people...(Hearing Charlie's "Neil") Was that Charlie!? I haven't heard your voice since down...You know all those good things you tell us about dust and all those other things: you know, you believe them all just like everybody else does, but you've just got to come out here and experience it for yourself to really be a believer.

172:03:29 Duke: Yeah, well I take it back about it all looks the same.

[Schmitt - "Charlie thought that all parts of the Moon looked just like all other parts of the Moon. And I think the TV of Taurus-Littrow changed his mind. He and John were in a pretty desolate, unscenic place at the Descartes site."]

172:03:50 Duke: Well, you guys did it great.

172:03:56 Schmitt: Charlie, it may all look the same, but Taurus-Littrow, mark my words, has some variety.

172:04:03 Duke: Yeah, we could tell that, Jack. Great job.

172:04:10 Schmitt: Thank you, Charlie; and thank you for all the help.

172:04:15 Cernan: Hey, Charlie, remember a long time ago when I said something about being down among them. I didn't know what it was until we got here.

[Cernan - "Charlie was CapCom on Apollo 10. When Tom Stafford and I went down in the Lunar Module over the top of the Apollo 11 landing site, I said 'Boy, we are down among 'em,' meaning that it seemed like we were going right down over the mountain tops."]

[Journal Contributor Brian Lawrence believes the exact quote is "We is down among 'em, Charlie."]

172:04:29 Cernan: (To Jack) Where are we (in the checklist)?

172:04:32 Parker: ...even though you guys were pretty piggy there in bringing rocks back, we're going to let you keep them all. You only busted the red line (that is, are overweight) by 40 pounds.

172:04:44 Cernan: Okay. He's a pretty good guy any way.

[Deke Slayton joins the conversation.]

[If the plane change leaves Evans in less than an optimal orbit for rendezvous, they might have to discard some of the samples.]

172:05:05 Slayton: We can believe that.

172:05:10 Cernan: (To Jack) Verify safeties (on the dump valve locks). Hey, we're on VOX anyway. Let's go to ICS/PTT.

172:05:16 Parker: It's safer that way.

[In a moment, they will switch from voice-activated comm to Push-to-Talk. The safeties were pins with wires on them so that they wouldn't drop off and get lost.]

172:05:41 Parker: Roger. We're following you to the surface checklist.

[They are now starting Surface 7-5.]

172:05:58 Schmitt: I'm going to take the front half. Gene will take the back half. (Long Pause)

[Page 2-3 in the LM Lunar Surface Checklist lists procedures for a One-Man EVA. The reverse side - page 2-4 - is a procedure to follow in the event of a LM repress failure.]

[Schmitt - "We probably never decided who would go out (for a one-man EVA). The back half of the page is something immaterial to the one-man EVA, and this remark suggests that we had had some discussion about who was going to be the one man."]

[Cernan - "It wasn't discussed in that much detail but, if we only had one PLSS, I suppose that - politically - we would have to have had a geologist go out. But, I guarantee you that Cernan would have been out there during part of it. We probably wouldn't have bothered with the Rover, because you wouldn't let one guy get that far away. But we probably would have each done a shortened EVA. A four-, five-, six-hour EVA - whatever we thought we could have done. And then have the other guy go out and do another one and, at least, stay there a couple of days. I don't remember specifically what our plan was; but that was one thing I always dreaded - that we would be faced with only one PLSS. That would have really compromised us. But there was no question that we would have both gone out. I wasn't going to go that far - a second time - and not go out on the surface. Period. But it would have been impractical, as well, not to have Jack go out - being a geologist. That was part of the reason for the whole trip."]

172:07:01 Parker: Okay, and Challenger we're ready to manage the old batteries.

172:07:10 Schmitt: The old ED batteries are 37.2. A and B. (Pause) (To Gene) I was just going to say I wish we had a broom.

[Comm Break.]

[The following is a discussion about the use of batteries versus fuel cells in the LM design.]

[Schmitt - "The early plan, the first design reference mission that Grumman put together, was a fuel-cell vehicle. And what killed the fuel cells were the fuel-cell problems that Gemini ran into. And that scared the managers, so they went to batteries. It's unfortunate, because the Apollo fuel cell was a different fuel cell"]

[Cernan - "We also had a Block II development of solar panels to take with us."]

172:10:27 Schmitt: You got Low.

172:10:29 Parker: Thank you. (Long Pause)

172:11:01 Parker: (Sounding stuffy and/or tired) And, Challenger, it's Bob. I'm going to turn you over to Casper about now, and let him put you guys to sleep.

172:11:18 Schmitt: Bob, I'm not sure what you mean. Who's your friendly ghost?

[Casper the Friendly Ghost was an animated character who first appeared in a 1939 in a children's book, "The Friendly Ghost" by Seymour Reit and Joe Oriolo, then in various Paramount animated films, a series of comic books beginning in 1952, an ABC (USA TV network) from 1963 into the mid 1990s, and a live-action feature film in 1995, "Casper". "Casper" was also the name the Apollo 16 crew gave their Command Module. Here, Bob is referring to the Apollo 16 Command Module Pilot, Ken Mattingly, who will take over the CapCom console.]

172:11:25 Schmitt: He doesn't know anything about the LM. He doesn't know anything about the LM. (Pause)

172:11:37 Mattingly: It's never too late to learn.

172:11:43 Schmitt: For you, I'd believe that; for a lot of people, I wouldn't. (Pause) Welcome aboard, Ken.

172:11:54 Mattingly: You guys make a pretty interesting show to watch. (Pause)

172:12:05 Schmitt: I hope so. (Long Pause; Jack can hear Mattingly and others in the Control Room) All I can do is hear your breathing, Ken.

172:12:35 Mattingly: Yeah. Just noticed that.

[The background noise disappears as Mattingly takes his foot off his microphone switch. Long Comm Break.]

172:19:28 Mattingly: Okay. Thank you.

[Long Comm Break.]

[After stowing the OPSs under the instrument panel and getting the ETB, the ISA, and the big bag out of the way, they are emptying the urine bladders in the suit before getting out of the suits.]

172:25:36 Mattingly: Okay.

[That is, Gene is turning off his audio circuit. They will get him out of his suit first. They are now on Surface 7-6.]

[Very Long Comm Break]

172:36:38 Schmitt: Say again, Ken.

172:36:40 Mattingly: (Normal volume) Are you busy? I'm sitting here looking at a couple of questions that they wanted to ask. Whenever it's convenient for you. I'm not sure just how busy you are right now; and just keep in mind I've got a few questions to ask you on the traverses, and give me a call when you're ready to talk about it.

172:37:02 Schmitt: Okay; we're unsuiting, Ken. Let us get unsuited, and then we'll be back with you.

172:37:07 Mattingly: Okay. Just whenever it's convenient for you.

[Long Comm Break]

[Jack and Gene took a series of photos out the windows after the PLSS jettison.]

[Frames AS17-143- 21943 to 21960 were taken out Jack's window; frame 21960 is the best of these and shows the thrusters and an assortment of footprints and Rover tracks.]

[The photos taken out Gene's window are much better. These are 21961 to 21982.]

[Dave Byrne has used the two sequences in a composite window pan.]

[Frames 21969 to 21972 show the PLSSs.]

[Frames 21973 to 21979 comprise an excellent horizon sequence.]

[At some point prior to suit doffing, Gene and Jack took another series of pictures out the windows. Frames AS17-145- 22192 to 22197 were taken out Gene's window and 22198 to 22222 where taken out Jack's window.]

[Dave Byrne has used the two sequences in a color composite window pan.]

[Jim Scotti notes that 22197 shows the bright blue Traverse Gravimeter (TGE) that Gene threw during the closeout at 169:51:20. Note the impact marks which, as with other disturbances around the LM, have restored the surface to something like its original shade of gray.]

[AS17-145- 22223 to 22228 are pictures that Gene and Jack took of each other before taking the suits off. Frames 22225, and 22228 are the best of these.]

[Cernan - "The pictures speak for themselves. We were pretty happy, pretty tired, and pretty dirty. Look at the faces and you can see the sense of satisfaction. And look at how dirty...look at how filthy we are! And hot. I guarantee you that underwear was soaked."]

[Schmitt - "In all four of the pictures that we took of each other in the cabin, one things you can see is a prominent vein in the foreheads of both of us. Normally, you don't see it. Sometimes it will show up when you laugh and you get a lot more blood flow into your head. But I don't think I was smiling hard enough in these pictures for that to happen. Here, it's an illustration of the excess blood volume that goes into the upper body in reduced gravity. Even in one-sixth gravity, even after this long a time, and even after we'd sloughed off a lot of fluid by this time. We'd probably each lost about ten pounds because we'd lost a lot of fluids." See, also, Journal Contributor Anil Sahal's discussion.]

[The following transmissions were accumulated during a press briefing and times are not readily available.]

172:46:57 Mattingly: Challenger, Houston.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: Go ahead.

172:xx:xx Mattingly: Hey, how about if we hit a Pro(ceed) on the DSKY and get it into P00 and back into Standby? We're worrying about the clock registers overflowing. And we'd like to get that done before 172:50, or somewhere in that neighborhood.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: Okay; stand by. (Pause) Is that what you wanted?

172:xx:xx Mattingly: Oh, we can't watch it, Jack. If you just tell us that you've got it into P00 and back into P06.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: That's what happened. (Pause) I thought you watched it the other night.

172:xx:xx Mattingly: No, we don't have any high bit rate now.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: That do make a difference. That's right.

172:xx:xx Mattingly: I understand that you've completed that transition. Is that correct?

172:xx:xx Schmitt: Which one?

172:xx:xx Mattingly: You did get it out of Standby into P00, and then back. Is that correct?

172:xx:xx Schmitt: That's affirm. We completed that.

172:xx:xx Mattingly: Okay. Thank you.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: Sorry to be so unclear.

172:xx:xx Mattingly: Hey, we also are still on your stowage. So when you get on page 7-6, where it says, "Stow Heaviest Collection Bag," down in the right-hand column towards the bottom, why don't you skip that step until after the eat period. And we're still working on the stowage locations.

172:xx:xx Schmitt: Okay.

[Very Long Comm Break]

[Schmitt - "We were stowing the bags to optimize the center of gravity and, therefore, fuel consumption - particularly RCS fuel."]

173:02:35 Mattingly: Loud and clear.

173:02:38 Cernan: Okay.

[Very Long Comm Break.]

[Gene is now out of his suit and they are probably working on Jack's, now.]

[Deke Slayton joins the conversation.]

173:19:28 Cernan: Okay. (Pause)

[The checklist calls for a changing the LiOH canister after the meal and the one hour schedule padding called "MCC-H Conference" but, since they are running late, the change is coming about on time. Obviously, Gene and Jack are not only paying close attention to the detail of the checklist but understand the rationale for the when and why of each of the steps. Once again, they have beaten Houston to the punch.]

[That is, they can gain an hour by eliminating the MCC-H Conference.]

173:20:09 Slayton: Okay; fine. Ken's trying to negotiate the question sessions for you here.

[Schmitt - "What it sounds like is that Deke sent Ken to negotiate a minimum list of questions - which I would have argued against. You want to get information when it's fresh. And we weren't using the whole eight hour rest period anyway, so you could cut the time out of the rest period (rather than the geology debrief)."]

[Comm Break.]

[AS17-134-20514 to 20532 are photos Gene and Jack took of each other and of the suits and helmets piled on the engine cover.]

[Frames 20514 to 20522 comprise a series of pictures of Gene. They are all blurred to some degree and 20521 and 20522 are the only acceptable pictures.]

[Frames 20523 to 20525 are good pictures of the suits and helmets. Note the soft-sided stowage bags.]

[Erik van Meijgaarden has combined 20517 and 523 into a view of Gene's side of the cabin. Erik writes, " As I was going through Michael Light's 'Full Moon' recently, I found a striking combination of two photos shown alongside each other that give us a lovely overview of the LM's interior. It took me a while to realise they were not assembled but just shown together. So I set myself to work on an assembly. The photo's are two of the series Jack took after EVA 3 and aren't of particular good quality. I guess a Hasselblad is a difficult instrument in these lighting conditions and after 22 hours of tiring EVAs. Although there are better pics in the series, I selected the best matching pair and created my view of the LM's interior. Altogether a gloomy picture, but I particularly like this one because there are not many images that give a sense of the size and (lack of) space available inside the LM." [Frames 20526 to 20529 are very dark. An enhanced version of 20526 shows the helmets a bit better.]

[Frames 20530 and 20531 are good pictures of Jack. Note Circuit Breaker Panel 16 behind him and, at the right, the ECS controls.]

[Frame 20532 is very dark.]

173:23:55 Mattingly: Thank you.

[Comm Break.]

[They are both out of their suits and LCGs and are into their Constant Wear Garments. They are on Surface 7-7.]

173:26:10 Mattingly: Okay. (Pause) Okay. Before we start on those questions, are you prepared to copy some lift-off times in your data book, and that kind of stuff?

173:26:25 Cernan: Give us about 10 seconds (to get the Data Card book out).

173:26:27 Mattingly: All right, sir. (Pause)

173:26:36 Schmitt: Go ahead, Ken.

173:26:38 Mattingly: Okay. This is rev 44. Lift-off: 174 plus 13 plus 49. TPI: 177 plus 01 plus 00. Okay; I'll give you just the lift-off times. Excuse me. For rev 45: 176 plus 12 plus 19; 178 plus 10 plus 49; 180 plus 09 plus 20; 182 plus 07 plus 50; 184 plus 06 plus 20. Rev 50 is 186:04:50. Over.

173:27:38 Schmitt: Okay, Ken. Starting with 44: 174:13:49; 176:12:19; 178:10:49; 180:09:20; 182:07:50; 184:06:02 (sic); 186:04:50. And what's the present rev, please?

173:28:03 Mattingly: Okay; we're coming up on...In fact, it looks like we're in 44 right now. Okay. (Pause) And, Jack, how about let's confirm that the rev 49 was 184:06:20.

173:28:30 Schmitt: Oh, I did have that wrong, in the seconds. Two zero seconds.

173:28:35 Mattingly: That's affirmative. Okay; and we've got your biomed coming through.

173:28:42 Schmitt: Well, one...(Hearing Mattingly) Am I alive?

173:28:47 Mattingly: Just barely. (Pause)

[Had they actually done an emergency lift-off 18 seconds early, they would have reached orbit about 30 kilometers ahead of the Command Module. However, given that they would have been in the same orbital plane as the Command Module, the error would have been merely an annoyance. Both spacecraft would have had enough fuel to make the slight velocity adjustment need to close the gap.]

[Schmitt - "I don't know where I got the number 'fifty', but I'd copied Pads a lot of times in training and a lot of times during the mission. There were a lot of them."]

173:29:04 Schmitt: 50 rev.

173:29:06 Mattingly: All right, sir. And...

173:29:08 Schmitt: Okay.

173:29:10 Mattingly: ...looks like it's about time for an eat period, and I've got these questions for you. But let's keep in mind that that's secondary, and if it ever gets in the way of eating, why holler up, and we'll just drop it right there. We're about an hour and a half behind the timeline, and we're going to make up no more than an hour of that.

173:29:36 Schmitt: Okay. (Long Pause) Okay, Ken. We're cutting into the chow and go ahead.

173:30:09 Mattingly: Okay. Would you like for me to just read you all the questions, and let you mull those over before you work on it, or you want to do one at a time?

173:30:22 Schmitt: One at a time's better, Ken.

173:30:23 Mattingly: All right, sir. Number 1. Wanted to know if the blue-gray rocks at Station 6 are similar to those at Station 2? (Pause)

173:30:43 Schmitt: Ken, I think they are. But I think you'll find that the ones at Station 6 are (a) much more metamorphic rock, or recrystallized rock, than the ones we had at Station 2. (Pause) I had the impression that the ones we were sampling at Station 6 were really inclusions in the anorthositic gabbro and had been probably considerably metamorphosed by it being included in it; whereas, the ones we had at Station 2 were a separate rock type apparently, as I recall it, anyway.

173:31:36 Mattingly: Okay; that's good.

[Schmitt - "Because I was using the term 'anorthositic gabbro', it doesn't appear that it had really struck me yet that it (the vesicular Station 6 rock-type) was a partially molten breccia."]

173:32:02 Mattingly: All right, sir. Let's go on to the second one, and it said: "Do we understand that there were no breccias at Station 8?" (Pause)

173:32:20 Schmitt: Ken, that parent orthopyroxene plagioclase rock was a breccia in the sense (that) it was fractured and was injected by dark glass. But it would be what we would call a mosaic breccia, in that respect, I think, and we didn't see any Station 6- or Station 2-type breccias there at all. Other than the subfloor gabbro, that orthopyroxene plagioclase rock was the only major rock type I think we saw, unless we picked up some in the rake sample.

[This was the rock that they turned over at Station 8 at 166:56:39. Post-mission analysis confirmed Jack's 'orthopyroxene plagioclase' description made here and in the field at 167:02:30.]

173:33:38 Schmitt: Well, I think we discussed that a little bit on the traverse - quite a bit, as a matter of fact. The impression I had was that (during) most of the traverse on the plains - with the one exception of Van Serg Crater - we were in block fields or fragment fields that were almost...well, (that) were dominantly subfloor. And, visually from the Rover, I had no impression of any other significant rock type, with the exception of occasional blocks of the gray variety of the subfloor gabbro. I don't know what Gene's impression was. He was driving a lot, but...Pass it on.

173:34:27 Cernan: I think we actually even commented - when we hit the break in slope coming back out of Station 6 and 7, and then coming back down out of 8 - how the terrain features changed. I think that was due principally to what we've been calling the subfloor material (being) evident. And there again, it was, what I would say, particularly mantled, filleted, much like we have here where the LM is; with the exception of Van Serg, where we actually saw fragmental boulders for the most part - a lot less buried - sitting on the surface.

173:35:17 Mattingly: All right, sir. "At Van Serg, some rocks were described as gray breccias, and some contained white fragments. Was there a variety of breccias present?"

173:35:33 Schmitt: I think not, Ken. My impression was that there was a variety only in the degree to which they were fractured. We found and sampled, I think, the two major...One (was a) extremely fractured rock that I said was friable; anyway, it broke into small pieces very easily with a hammer or in your hand, if you worked at it. And the other was a breccia that was much more cohesive than that. It was not fractured or friable at all, but they both were on the rim, and I think they were just varieties, probably, of shock fracturing.

173:36:18 Mattingly: Okay. "Could the Van Serg breccias correlate with the blue-gray material at Cochise?" (Pause)

173:36:31 Schmitt: That's possible, I guess. But my first guess would be that the blue-gray at Cochise was blue-gray subfloor. And...(Thinking it over) Well, I don't know. That's a good question. That's a good question. Maybe with the pictures we have, we can work out an approximate attitude on that contact that I talked about in Cochise, and see if it would project over reasonably to Van Serg. I wouldn't be surprised if it would. That's a good point.

173:37:08 Cernan: To me they looked very similar.

173:37:11 Mattingly: Okay. And you guys sure you're eating?

173:37:15 Schmitt: But...But...Ken, Ken, Ken.

173:37:20 Mattingly: Go ahead.

173:37:24 Cernan: Yeah, we're eating. We're fixing and eating at the same time.

173:37:30 Mattingly: You're mighty efficient. Go ahead. You were starting to say something.

173:37:38 Schmitt: Yeah, Ken. I think (that), from the distance (from which) we saw the blue-gray in Cochise, you couldn't make a definite correlation. But it's a good idea and ought to be considered as one of the possibilities. The other is that we just had a window in the subfloor that coincidentally - I mean (that) one (unit) underneath the subfloor might be that breccia - and, coincidentally, the Van Serg impact hit that window.

[Schmitt - "In this point in my thinking, I hadn't come to the ultimate conclusion that was made; and that was that Van Serg hit into a very deep zone of regolith and that the breccias we were seeing were primarily regolith breccias or what was once called 'instant rock' created by the impact. The reason that the regolith was deep there was that several large craters had superimposed their ejecta blankets in that particular region. So the regolith was probably 30 or maybe more meters thick, in contrast to the five meters out on the valley floor itself."]

173:38:21 Schmitt: Negative. It was a...Excuse me; I have my mouth full.

173:38:29 Mattingly: It's about time.

173:38:32 Schmitt: It was an aggregate of irregular - looked like - agglutinated glass in (broken) fragments just sitting on the rim of Van Serg. And the reason I said I thought it was "in place" or had fallen there and crystallized (that is, cooled) there, is that there were four or five similar fragments arranged in a small coherent area. (I'm) not making that very clear I don't think; but it looks as if it hit and broke apart upon hitting a little bit but didn't really splatter or break apart in any significant manner.

173:39:28 Mattingly: All right.

[Schmitt - "The material was apparently quite viscous but still hot (when it landed). It didn't shatter but broke. It was probably glassy when it hit, with some crystals in it."]

173:40:10 Mattingly: Okay.

173:40:14 Schmitt: And that's not to say it's volcanic glass. That's just the kind of pattern it was.

[The glass they found at Van Serg was undoubtedly formed in a relatively nearby impact.]

173:40:38 Schmitt: I think so, except - as Gene pointed out - the clasts were coarser. They were coarser in the bottom than about anything we saw in the rim.

[Schmitt - "I think I wasn't answering the question. I'm not sure, but photographs show that there was dark, fine-grained material streaming down the wall of Van Serg. And I'm not sure I noticed that, except in the photographs. Van Serg was actually a bench crater and the dark material was stopping at the bench. It may be that I described that. We'll see. After the mission, the people who looked at the soil samples found devitrified orange glass spheres. There was probably fire-fountaining along the bounding faults of the valley at the foot of the Massifs. That's the most likely place for the conduits to have developed."]

[This comment was made in a review session that was conducted long before our meeting with Gene in Santa Fe. The answer to Jack's question - did he describe the bench that the termination of the dark material at the bench? - is that, while he didn't notice the dark material, he did describe the bench which, in one sense, is visually defined where the dark streaks stop. The relevant photos are AS17-142- 21799 to 21811 which are part of Jack's Van Serg pan.]

173:41:17 Cernan: Yeah, we're...(To Jack) Where did we find those tan breccias? (Pause)

[Bob Parker rejoins the conversation.]

173:41:41 Schmitt: They were both gabbros.

173:41:43 Parker: Yeah, excuse me...

173:41:45 Schmitt: Bob, they were tan gabbros and blue-gray gabbros.

173:41:47 Parker: Roger. Okay, yesterday...Excuse me, I wasn't reading the question. Okay, the breccias. There were tan and blue-gray breccias yesterday at Station 2, were there not? You had the two types of breccias at Station 2.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 21 min 04 sec )

173:42:01 Schmitt: Oh well, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And, now as I think back, I guess that's the main difference between the tan rocks at Station 2 and Station 6; because the ones at 6 appear to have an igneous texture or at least a very crystalline texture and inclusion-like masses of other rocks. Whereas, the ones at Station 2, they seem to be fragment breccias, as I recall.

173:42:45 Cernan: That's right.

173:42:47 Schmitt: Although they may have been recrystallized or metamorphosed, they were clearly breccias at Station 2. I just forgot about that.

173:42:54 Parker: Okay, copy that.

173:42:58 Mattingly: Okay, and "can you amplify your description going out to Station 6? In particular were there blue-gray and tan-gray bands on the North Massif?" (Pause)

173:43:13 Schmitt: Rather than bands, there were lines that appeared to be the upper terminus of the source of the boulders that were strewn below that line. And those lines tended to be either...(to) show a blue-gray source or a tan-gray source, if you will. (Garbled for a few seconds) Oh, those (garbled) bags.

173:44:00 Parker: Challenger, if you think you're talking to us, you're breaking up badly.

173:44:08 Schmitt: I just thought you might be interested; we just had a little spurt of dust come up by the window.

173:44:19 Mattingly: Was there a sleigh with it? (Long Pause)

173:44:34 Schmitt: Wise guy. (Pause)

[The date is December 14. It is about 2:37 a.m. in Houston. Mattingly is wondering if they've had an early visit from Santa Claus.]

173:44:52 Schmitt: One little shot, it was actually just particles. Something we threw out must have popped.

173:45:02 Mattingly: (Returning to the geology questions) Okay. "Do you have any preliminary stratigraphic sequence for the plains?"

173:45:16 Schmitt: For the plains, huh? (Pause) Well, my guess would be that the Van Serg breccias were the oldest rocks. The subfloor gabbro's the next oldest; and the mantling material's the youngest. But the only good clear relationship was mantle on top of the subfloor gabbros. We really don't have a good relationship of the (Van Serg) breccias and I guess I lean towards thinking that Van Serg was a window in the subfloor rather than being a bed of some kind on top of the subfloor.

173:46:02 Mattingly: Okay, and "do you have an opinion on what underlies the Sculptured Hills?"

173:46:13 Schmitt: Well, I think, we said...The rake sample is probably going to have to tell the tale there. My guess is - from the boulders of subfloor around up there that are of gabbro - that maybe the Sculptured Hills are a version of the subfloor rocks. I don't think that the orthopyroxene anorthosite rock was necessarily indigenous to the Sculptured Hills. It was glass-coated and permeated by glass, so I suspect it may have been thrown there by an impact somewhere else.

[Schmitt - "The Sculptured Hills are almost certainly a variety of the ejecta blanket of the Orientale Basin. Why they have a different surface texture, I don't know. I think what was bothering me here is that we were seeing a large number of basaltic fragments up on the side of the Sculptured Hills where we were sampling. How they got there, I don't know. But we weren't too far from Cochise, Henry, and Shakespeare and they may be ejecta from those craters. Those are pretty big craters - as big as Camelot - and Camelot certainly had a lot of subfloor basalt around it. The theory I expressed here probably wasn't very good, except for the comments about the orthopyroxene anorthosite rock. That's good logic."]

173:47:45 Cernan: Okay, Ken, we got Cabin Gas Return (Valve), Auto.

173:47:50 Mattingly: Okay, understand Auto and you got the Select to Cabin?

173:47:58 Cernan: Yeah, Gas Diverter's pushed to Cabin and we're drying the PGAs (the suits) out.

173:48:04 Mattingly: All right, sir. (Pause)

173:48:13 Cernan: And I guess if you could go in...My feeling is if you go to the bottom of every one of those large craters like Camelot, and you'd examine some of these fragments on the walls and down into the bottom, I just get a feeling you'd find this blue-gray breccia down there.

173:48:36 Mattingly: All right, sir.

173:48:43 Cernan: I mean in all the big craters like Camelot.

173:48:47 Schmitt: I think maybe that's true; however, we do not see isolated fragments of it very often, if at all, out here on the plains themselves, away from the craters. So if the blue-gray breccia - (correcting himself) the Van Serg breccia - does underlie the subfloor, it's far enough down (below the surface) that the craters we have apparently have not penetrated and brought up much of that kind of material. (Pause) Well, that's it.

173:49:32 Mattingly: Okay guys, it's time to press on and finish up chow time and I've got your stowage summaries whenever you're ready for that, to get started on.

173:49:46 Schmitt: Okay, Ken let us finish eating, then we'll go back to work.

173:49:51 Mattingly: Okay, give me a call when you're ready. (Long Pause)

173:50:03 Schmitt: (Inadvertent key) I'll help you (garbled).

[Long Comm Break]

173:54:17 Mattingly: All right, sir. On (Surface Checklist) page 2-2, I've got some numbers to fill in at the bottom under the collection bag stowage. (Pause)

173:54:29 Cernan: Okay, I've got it.

173:54:31 Mattingly: Okay, number 1 with the aft of the engine cover is bag 8. And then the second line, it's bag 7. The third line it's bag 6 left-hand and 5 right-hand. And the last line is bag 2 and 4. And you can disregard the max. weights.

[The planned maximum weights were 40 pounds aft of the engine cover; 40 pounds in the LHMS (Left-hand Mid-Section) which is a stowage area just aft of the area where Gene's PLSS had been stowed and, now, the rock boxes are fastened to the wall; 40 pounds each in the LHSSC and RHSSC (left-hand and right-hand-side stowage compartments) which are below the side instrument panels; and 50 pounds in the ISA (Interim Stowage Assembly).]

[Frank and Stacey O'Brien have provided a view ( 0.7Mb ) of a RHSSC in a LM simulator taken in 2002 at the Cradle of Aviation Museum. The Right Hand Side Stowage Comparment (RHSSC) is on the lower part of the side bulkhead on the LMP's side of the cabin and consists of four shelves into which various soft stowage bags have been secured. Various other bags are secured to the sides. Undoubtedly, Gene and Jack would have removed any items no longer needed before stowing the samples.]

173:55:12 Mattingly: That's affirmative. (Pause)

173:55:22 Cernan: Okay.

[Long Comm Break]

173:59:11 Schmitt: I'm glad somebody is watching things! Thank you.

[Schmitt - "Ken was being very diplomatic."]

[Very Long Comm Break]

[Schmitt - "I think there were storage racks on the right and left-hand sides and, if I remember correctly, they had fabric covers."]

[Cernan - "The rock boxes stacked on top of each other where my PLSS had been on the port bulkhead. They were locked in with pins."]

[Long Comm Break. They are doing the tasks in the right-hand column of Surface 7-7, apparently not in order. Gene is stowing the rock bags, a task near the bottom of the column and, as indicated by his next statement, Jack is stowing film magazines, a task near the top of the column.]

174:28:13 Mattingly: Okay.

[These are the photos that Gene and Jack took of each other and the helmets. Long Comm Break]

174:31:44 Mattingly: Okay, copy 153.

[Very Long Comm Break.]

[Jack is stowing the film magazines into the LCG (Liquid Cooled Garment) Stowage Compartment which is below his right-side switch panel. AS17-143- 21943 to 21982 comprise a window pan which they may have just taken.]

[Frame AS17-134- 21944 is of particular interest because it - like others in the sequence taken in the same direction - shows the geology hammer. See a full discussion by Jim Scotti.]

[Frame 21960 is an excellent picture that shows the thrusters and an assortment of footprints and Rover tracks.]

[The photos taken out Gene's window - 21961 to 21982 are much better pictures than the ones taken out Jack's window.]

[Frames 21969 to 21972 show the PLSSs.]

[Frames 21973 to 21979 comprise an excellent southwestern horizon sequence.]

174:44:18 Mattingly: Go ahead, Geno.

174:44:23 Cernan: Okay, Ken. All we've got left to stow now is the Buddy SLSS bag and that's in work. And we got all the ETB stuff taken care of. All the other bags are stowed per your recommendation. We'll be configuring the ECS for sleep and putting up the hammocks here shortly; and as soon as we can get cleaned up personally a little bit, we'll be in the sack.

174:44:58 Mattingly: Okay. Sounds great. (Long Pause)

174:45:55 Mattingly: Hey, Geno, the guys are looking at that Buddy SLSS bag and suggested you all make sure that you're going to have room to do the equipment jettison and get the hatch open and all that. They had planned on stowing it the next day.

[This suggests that they can use the floor space between them for stowage, but only after they are finished using the hatch.]

174:46:23 Mattingly: "The faster I run, the behinder I get." (Long Pause)

174:46:42 Cernan: Yeah. You keep forgetting these checklists have been exercised a hundred thousand times.

174:46:50 Mattingly: Yeah, we keep remembering that.

[Long Comm Break]

174:51:21 Schmitt: Okay, Ken, this is Jack. I guess I have the "duty biomed" tonight, so I'll give you a call when we're turning out the lights.

174:51:30 Mattingly: Okay.

174:51:31 Schmitt: And it won't be too long.

174:51:33 Mattingly: All right. You guys are doing pretty good! You're almost caught up.

[Comm Break]

174:52:48 Mattingly: Okay, stand by one and I'll check on that.

[Comm Break. As mentioned at 171:39:37, they each had two pairs of EVA gloves - a fact confirmed when, at the end of the second EVA, Gene asked Bob Parker if "those gloves that you've got packed in the back have got something in them." At 171:54:54, they departed from the checklist and jettisoned two pairs of gloves rather than two pairs of boots. As suggested by the dialog from here to 174:56:09, they jettisoned the unused EVA gloves - which they must have gotten out of storage, another action not in the checklist. Gene says that they had decided to bring the boots home and, perhaps, they decided to jettison a pair of gloves instead. Each of them also has a pair of Intravehicular (IV) gloves.]

[Cernan - "I think we had two pairs of EVA gloves because that was a single point failure to the suit."]

174:54:35 Schmitt: Okay, Ken, got you. Yeah. They're going to get the inside of the LEVA pretty dirty. (Long Pause)

174:54:59 Mattingly: Well, from what we've seen, Jack, (chuckling) I think everything's going to be about the same color by the time you get through.

174:55:08 Schmitt: Okay, it didn't bother your (Apollo 16) EVA - did it, Ken - to have a little dust in your helmet?

174:55:15 Mattingly: No, no; that's kind of nice to have.

174:55:21 Schmitt: Hey, an experienced fellow like you might have a recommendation on how to get my visor up.

174:55:30 Mattingly: Yeah; give it to the CMP. (Long Pause)

[Deke Slayton rejoins the conversation.]

174:56:09 Schmitt: I wish you hadn't asked that, Deke. (Slayton laughs) We were just debating that, too. (Pause)

[Editor's note: The value of the worn gloves - both from an historical and an engineering point of view is inestimable. They made the right choice.]

174:56:26 Schmitt: You do all sorts of things...(Stops to listen to Slayton)

174:56:30 Cernan: Hey, they're out on the porch as a matter of fact. That's not too far fetched. (Long Pause)

174:57:08 Schmitt: I guess there's some old friends you just hate to get rid of, Deke.

174:57:12 Slayton: Yeah, that figures. (Long Pause) Yeah, you guys have had some real winners there. Don't change a good thing.

174:57:39 Schmitt: Well, they seemed to do all right for us. I guess that's the way we were halfway thinking, but not thinking very well, as is witnessed in our checklist procedures tonight.

174:57:52 Slayton: Ah, you're doing outstanding.

[Comm Break]

[The 'Down-Voice Backup' step is not to be found in the available version of the checklist on either Surface 7-7 or 7-8.]

175:00:45 Mattingly: That's affirmative.

175:00:50 Schmitt: Okay. That's easy.

[Schmitt - "We had some soft cotton towels which we could wet with the water gun."]

[Very Long Comm Break]

175:16:59 Mattingly: Okay.

[This step is near the top of the left-hand column of Surface 7-8.]

[Schmitt - "This was an antenna on the LM for receiving EVA transmissions. The ground could monitor signal strengths and just pick whichever antenna was getting the best strength - either the Rover or the LM."]

175:17:12 Mattingly: Okay. I may have misled you earlier when I said, we weren't going to lose any time. We can get you 8 hours (of rest) up to about 19 after the hour. After that, we're going to have to start rearranging things to get 8 hours.

175:17:34 Schmitt: Well, Gene's almost in his hammock now. And I will be shortly, so I think we're probably in pretty good shape.

175:17:39 Mattingly: Okay, that's fine. I just...I didn't want to mislead you.

175:17:45 Schmitt: That's all right, you've never misled me before. (Pause) Well, let me think about that.

175:17:56 Mattingly: I was going to say: you catch on awful slow, if that's true.

175:18:05 Schmitt: Right.

[Comm Break]

175:19:27 Mattingly: Well, it's going to be roughly 45 minutes past the time listed at 182:39. So...Are you asking for it in local time?

175:19:40 Cernan: Yeah. My watch is set on Houston time. What time will it be?

175:19:44 Slayton: Be about...

175:19:45 Cernan: Eight hours from when?

175:19:46 Slayton: Be about 12:15 (p.m. Central Standard Time), Geno.

175:19:51 Cernan: Okay, that sounds great, Deke. It won't...We're just cleaning up a few minor things and we'll actually probably be asleep in the next 10 to 15 minutes.

175:20:03 Slayton: Okay, sleep good. You had a lovely day. Hope tomorrow's as good.

175:20:06 Cernan: Sorry to keep...(Stops to listen) Thank you, boss. Sorry to keep you up so late. But appreciate it very much.

175:20:14 Slayton: We're enjoying it.

175:20:18 Mattingly: Hey, Gene, before you unplug you might...

175:20:20 Cernan: Okay, I'm going off the air.

175:20:22 Mattingly: ...check the Suit Flow valve. Looks like it's not flowing, if that's the configuration you want. (Pause)

175:20:36 Cernan: Yeah, we've got them both flowing. And we've got good circulation in the cockpit. If it looks good to you down there, we're in good shape up here.

175:20:45 Mattingly: Looks fine. See you later.

175:20:50 Cernan: Okay, we thank you much.