“Houston We Have a Podcast” is the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, the home of human spaceflight, stationed in Houston, Texas. We bring space right to you! On this podcast, you’ll learn from some of the brightest minds of America’s space agency as they discuss topics in engineering, science, technology and more. You’ll hear firsthand from astronauts what it’s like to launch atop a rocket, live in space and re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere. And you’ll listen in to the more human side of space as our guests tell stories of behind-the-scenes moments never heard before.

Episode 46 features Stories of Unity. Adam Kalil, Chair of the Asians Succeeding in Innovation and Aerospace Employee Resource Group, conveniently spelling out ASIA, here on site. Also included are guests Krystine Bui the Deputy Manager of Institutional Procurement Office, Doug Wong a Senior Space Systems and Human factors Engineer, Charlene Gilbert a Technology Transfer Officer in the Exploration Technology Office and Ven Feng, Manager of International Space Station Transportation Integration Office. They all stem from different backgrounds across the center: Exploration, Safety, Procurement and International Space Station. We’ll get to hear their story of how they got to NASA and what they do to help make human spaceflight possible. This episode was recorded throughout the month of May 2018.

Transcript

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 46: Stories of Unity. I’m Gary Jordan, and I’ll be your co-host today, along with Adam Kalil Chair of the Asians Succeeding in Innovation and Aerospace employee resource group, conveniently spelling out ASIA here on site. Adam, thanks for coming on.

Adam Kalil:Oh, thanks, Gary. Glad to be here.

Host: So we’ve have had some employee resource groups on the podcast before. And we’ve had the African-American resource group and the Women’s resource group. So what are the goals of the one you chair, ASIA?

Adam Kalil:Okay. Employee resource groups are established to foster an inclusive workplace. Like all other non-ERG’s, ASIA’s ERG goal is faster, collaborative, and inclusive workplace to bring about innovative solution to NASA’s mission. Second, influence hiring and employee retention to gain and retain talent and bring new perspectives through active engagement. Three, raise awareness of JSC policies and processes. Fourth is serve as cultural ambassadors to fuel better engagement to the management team. Fifth is transform employees into think tanks and build a talent pipeline, increasing representation and inclusiveness.

Host: All right, really hitting it all. So Adam, May is Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month. So what is the significance of this month to you?

Adam Kalil:Yeah, sure. Highlighting this month is important to recognize the remarkable contributions by the previous generations of Americans of Asian and Pacific Islander descent. Also, it’s important to understand the cultural differences within the JSC workforce which can make it easier for us to relate to the people that have different backgrounds and together we build a lasting legacy for a more inclusive workplace.

Host: Yeah. And so that’s what we’re doing today, we’re engaging with the Asian-Pacific American community. So Houston, We Have a Podcast is teaming up with ASIA for Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month to tackle this theme of unity. And we’ve wrangled four guests from different backgrounds across the center in fields like exploration, safety, procurement, and the International Space Station. And then we’ll get to hear their story and how they got to NASA, and then what they do to make human space flight possible. So, Adam, who is our first guest?

Adam Kalil:First is Krystine Bui. She’s the deputy manager for Institutional Procurement Office and advisor for the ASIA employee resource group. She also first came to the US as a refugee from Vietnam when she was 11.

Host: Great. All right, let’s get right into it. Producer Alex, cue the music.

[ Music ]

Host: Well, Krystine, thank you for coming on the show to tell your story today.

Krystine Bui: Thank you. Happy to be here today.

Host: [Laughs] Well, I wanted to start with — and this is curious — is you came to the United States from Vietnam, actually, when you were a kid.

Krystine Bui: Mm-hmm.

Host: So what was that like, that transition, I guess, from Vietnam to the States?

Krystine Bui: Wow, I was 11 at the time, very, very young. And I had a very traumatic experience coming over here on a boat. I was one of the refugees, boat refugees. Yeah. We were stranded in the ocean for, like, 20 days without water or food. So something like that you don’t forget easily, even as a child. So coming over here, everything was like new. It was, like, a new land, a new beginning. Everything was just totally strange and new. We got a lot of help from church. They gave us clothing and food in the beginning. So, you know?

Host: Yeah.

Krystine Bui: I mean, I was too young to really comprehend and appreciate what all they were doing, but now looking back, yeah.

Host: Yeah.

Krystine Bui: All those amazing people.

Host: Looking back at it objectively, it was just part of —

Krystine Bui: Yeah, yeah. I mean, looking back I told my kids every chance you get, “You just need to give. Because mom and dad came and we received.”

Host: Yes. And it was very, very helpful.

Krystine Bui: Yeah.

Host: What were some of the things that were most new to you? When you said things were new, was it a culture shock or was it, I don’t know, maybe —

Krystine Bui: Everything.

Host: Everything?

Krystine Bui: Yeah, I think we came in the winter. So, you know, there’s no winter in Vietnam — at least South Vietnam there’s no winter. The temperatures there stays in I want to say the 90’s year-round. So coming over here, the first winter was — you know, I mean, Houston wasn’t cold, but then we were only here for a couple months. And then we went on, we moved to Oklahoma City. And Oklahoma City at the time had snow.

Host: The first time seeing snow?

Krystine Bui: Yeah, it was a true winter. And at the time I didn’t know how to wear tennis shoes, for instance. And I still don’t know how to wear tennis shoes to this day [Laughs] because I grew up in flip-flops.

Host: Oh, I see.

Krystine Bui: It was so funny. You know, the church, they gave us shoes. And my dad made us wear shoes to school. But then halfway walking to school, I took off my tennis shoes and I put on my flip flops.

[ Laughter ] Of course, in hindsight it wasn’t, you know, a smart thing to do because I caught cold all winter long.

Host: Oh, no.

Krystine Bui: Yeah.

Host: Yeah, I get why your body’s not used to it. And you’re taking off your shoes.

Krystine Bui: No. So that was a total adjustment. You know? Just the temperature itself. And then going to school, there was the language barrier, of course.

Host: Oh, that’s huge, yeah.

Krystine Bui: But yeah, luckily when you’re young, you’re like a sponge and you absorb. And, you know, you just learn. You pick little things up here and there and eventually you blend in.

Host: Okay.

Krystine Bui: Yeah.

Host: So you eventually felt that, you eventually felt like you sort of started to blend in a little bit?

Krystine Bui: You know, I really didn’t feel the transition; it just became part of my life. You know? I think when you’re young and you’re in a new culture, you just — you just learn to adapt and you don’t even think about it, you know? Like, I think when you’re older and you learn to play piano, anything, your mind has to make that transition, you know? But the younger you are, the easier it is to adapt and adopt new things. So I feel when you ask me when did I feel that transition, I really can’t tell you. It just became a part of me. It just — and I’m pretty sure it’s like that for many people that came here when they were younger.

Host: Yeah.

Krystine Bui: Yeah.

Host: In school, was there certain subjects that sort of clicked with you as you were going through this transitional period, maybe some things you really latched onto and really liked? Maybe the education system really opened your eyes to some extra possibilities of what you wanted to do for the rest of your life.

Krystine Bui: So I can tell you math was very easy for me [Laughs].

Host: Really?

Krystine Bui: And that’s probably because of the school that I got in Vietnam.

Host: Okay.

Krystine Bui: So math was — it was just easy. And then English, of course, was not [Laughs]. I remember taking many ESL courses.

Host: Mm-hmm. English as a second language?

Krystine Bui: Yeah, English as a second language. And then I also had additional tutoring on the side to help me learn.

Host: Okay. So at what point did you decide — because right now you’re in accounting. And I’m guessing that’s kind of what you wanted to pursue for school, right?

Krystine Bui: Not really.

[ Laughter ]

Host: Was it forced upon you on your parents?

Krystine Bui: So I’ll tell you a little bit. So, you know, Asian parents — all Asian parents want their kids to be doctors. And if you can’t be a doctor, you be an engineer. And if you can’t be an engineer, I guess you go to business school [Laughs]. It’s like the last one on the scale of things. So, of course, I went down that path.

Host: So was it you didn’t want to be a doctor or an engineer? Or is it —

Krystine Bui: Well, you know what, I took one semester of biology at U of H Central Campus. And I think there were at least 400 of us in that big, big auditorium. It was so intimidating. And me with my sleeping habit [Laughs], I didn’t do well.

Host: [Laughs] You fell asleep in class?

Krystine Bui: I fell asleep in every single class. And I still do to this day. The minute people lecture, I go to sleep.

Host: Oh.

Krystine Bui: So then, of course, I switch over to engineering. And I did really well in engineering. And every class is — because, you know, math was easy for me. But then physics was absolutely not. I took one physics class and I said, “You know what? I can’t be an engineer. I’m not a physics person.” So then at the time, my husband, my boyfriend then he said, “Honey, why don’t you just go for business?”

[ Laughter ] And, you know, so with my passion for number, accounting was the obvious choice. So, yeah.

Host: So when you started taking those classes, did you really start excelling?

Krystine Bui: It was at home for me.

Host: Really?

Krystine Bui: Yeah, I slept through every single class and I aced all the way through.

Host: Wow.

Krystine Bui: Yeah.

Host: So you knew, okay, that’s definitely where you’re excelling. Because I couldn’t do that. I struggled through accounting, I really did.

Krystine Bui: Oh, no. It was a piece of cake for me.

[ Laughter ]

Host: So then where did you start working right after school?

Krystine Bui: So after I — let’s see, after I decided that accounting is my major, so then my friend got a job as a co-op out here. He was an engineer co-op. And then he started to tell me about NASA. And I said, “NASA, space exploration, those people up there in the sky?” I said, “I want to be there, I think that’s a cool place to be.”

Host: Yeah.

Krystine Bui: So then I put in my application for a co-op. When I put in, I had already missed the deadline for that semester.

Host: Oh, no.

Krystine Bui: But then you know what? I really wanted to be here. So I was on the phone bugging the co-op coordinator every day for, like, two weeks. I said, “You know, I really want to be out here. And please, please, please give me an interview.” I think he was fed up with me after calling him two weeks straight [Laughs] and he told me to come in for an interview.

Host: [Laughs] Finally gave in?

Krystine Bui: Yeah. And that’s how I got my first co-op position out here.

Host: Wow. So where was the first position? Was it —

Krystine Bui: I was in FMD.

Host: That’s what?

Krystine Bui: Financial Management Division.

Host: Okay.

Krystine Bui: That was where most accountants were at the time. And so that was my first co-op tour. And then the second co-op tour I decided I want to see what’s beyond accounting. So I went over to procurement.

Host: Okay.

Krystine Bui: And I don’t know if it was necessarily the job in itself or the environment, the people that really attracted me and I felt more at home. So after graduation I chose procurement, and I’ve been there ever since.

Host: Really?

Krystine Bui: Yes.

Host: And I see not only have you been in procurement, but you sort of worked your way up through procurement. Now you’re a manager?

Krystine Bui: Yes, yeah.

Host: All right [Laughs]. So this is kind of a broad question, but maybe some people don’t really recognize — you think of NASA, you think of engineering, space flight, and science. But there’s a business side to things.

Krystine Bui: Absolutely.

Host: Someone’s got to keep track of the numbers, right? So what does the Procurement Office do?

Krystine Bui: So, you know, the easiest way I explain to people is if you look around here, NASA, we don’t do all the jobs ourselves. You know, like the — right now the International Space Station is floating out there in outer space. We manage the contract, but the contractor that does — the one that maintains the ISS is Boeing.

Host: Hmm.

Krystine Bui: And not only Boeing, but under Boeing they have quite a few major subcontractors and smaller subcontractors supporting them. So, you know, on a high level it’s like that. But if you look around you, you know, let’s say JSC buildings. JSC employees, we don’t quite maintain the buildings or we don’t build the buildings. Every time we get funding for a new building or to even do a roof repair, we get a contractor to come in and do the job. And that’s where procurement comes in. We do everything from cradle to grave, from putting the request for proposal out to evaluate and award the contract to the contractors. So that way they can come in and do the job. We do a lot of — NASA is — NASA overall, we do more oversight than actual hands-on.

Host: I see. So you’re awarded a certain amount of money, and you need a task. And then your job is to make sure that that money is spent as efficiently as possible —

Krystine Bui: Exactly.

Host: — bringing in the right people to do the right job. It’s done reliably, it’s done based on a certain set of rules and requirements.

Krystine Bui: Absolutely.

Host: You have to make sure you fulfill these obligations.

Krystine Bui: Before we pay them.

Host: Yes. Exactly. Okay, so that makes sense. So we are the — we sort of — we get the money and we make sure the job is done, but we enable these contractors to do that.

Krystine Bui: Yes. They carry out — the contractor that has to carry out the requirements in the contract before we make any payment to them.

Host: So then what’s your job as a manager in the procurement office? Are you delegating these responsibilities?

[ Laughter ]

Krystine Bui: So as a manager, I have direct reports that are under me from team leads to contracting officers, to contract specialists. So basically, all of us do the same kind of job but at a different level. Like, the contract specialists, when you start out in procurement, you start out as a contract specialist. And then after you’ve been there a while, you work your way up. You understand the rules and regulations. And then you become a contracting officer. At that point, you review the work that the contract specialists do. And then as the team lead, you know, you manage — you oversee work that was done by these contracting officers and contract specialists. And then as a manager, not only the — not only you have the overall responsibility, but then you’re also looking at a different side: You want to develop people’s soft skills.

Host: Yes.

Krystine Bui: You want — you know, you become more of a people developer, ensuring that you — there is a succession pipeline that when you exit, when you leave, they will be behind you to pick up your job. And not just to carry out the technical but also the softer people side as well.

Host: Yeah, you’re reviewing to make sure the job is done correctly but then also empowering others to develop their skills.

Krystine Bui: Exactly.

Host: So let’s end with a piece of advice. For you coming from Vietnam as a kid and just kind of learning the ropes for this brand new culture to now being a leader inside of NASA, what’s a piece of advice that you would give someone outside?

Krystine Bui: Whatever you do, just do your best. Just approach it with passion. And just be the best you can be. And at the end of the day, you know, you alone cannot experience everything. So look around for good mentors. Look around for [inaudible] and go to them and get their help to fulfill your dream. And as long as you have a dream, as long as you have your passion, anything is possible.

Host: I love it. Krystine, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

Krystine Bui: Thank you.

Host: Okay, that was Krystine Bui talking about her role in procurement and the ASIA ERG. So, Adam, who do we have next?

Adam Kalil: Next is Doug Wong. He’s the visiting vehicle S&MA integration lead for the International Space Station Cargo Resupply Service, CRS contract.

Host: Wow. All right. He’s got a big role. And he actually came from Hong Kong, too. It was really cool talk. So let’s go right ahead to there. Doug, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to share your story.

Doug Wong: Thanks for having me.

Host: Of course. I wanted to start with your journey because yours is a unique one because you were an immigrant and you had — actually were in Hong Kong for the first 19 years of your life, is that right?

Doug Wong: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah, I was an immigrant when I was 19 years old, and I spent most of my elementary and high school education in Hong Kong. I, in fact, attribute a lot of my current career success to both my elementary school and my high school as well.

Host: So have you ever seen, or visited, or maybe talked to an elementary school in the US and have a good comparison?

Doug Wong: Yeah, I actually did get the chance to do that in one occasion. And I was having a talk with some of the elementary school kids, I believe it was up in Woodlands, Texas, near Houston. And, yeah, that was very interesting in that the kids, they were just so amazed at how — you know, the way NASA operates all the futuristic things that we do. And I actually can — you know, when I was there, I could actually kind of see through their minds as to this kind of [inaudible] amazement out of their faces. And it was just so fascinating.

Host: Yeah. Actually, so being in the Public Affairs Office, we go out and do stuff like that quite frequently actually. And I always kind of purposely sign up for those things because sometimes you just kind of get into the groove of your day and you just sort of realize or you don’t realize how special what you are doing is. It’s just the day-to-day job. And then he quote you say, “Well, this is what I’m doing,” and then you see the kids faces light up and they’re like, “What? You doing what? That’s amazing. I didn’t even know that was possible.” And you going to step back and realize how amazing it is. So with your experience with talking with these students and maybe your experience with the school, how would you compare it to your education in Hong Kong? What are some of the main differences?

Doug Wong: Let me see. Well, incidentally I also get the opportunity to visit my high school and also gave similar talks about my career, so I can actually tell the difference between them.

Host: Oh, okay.

Doug Wong: Kids in Asia, they tend to be a little bit more reserved. And they don’t necessarily express their feelings. But once you start talking to them and once you get them up to speed, then they will have all kinds of questions. I remember they loved asked me about astronomy, which is not actually a very good subject for me. But I was still able to invoke their imagination, which was wonderful. And in that respect it’s kind of similar for the kids in the US in that they usually start — become more excited, okay? And they’re all like, “Wow, wow, engineers from NASA. Cool.” That kind of expression you see from their face. And then they will start having a lot of facial expressions, and you can tell that they are very, very engaged to your talk.

Host: Yeah, and that’s such a pleasure. So one of the main differences since you — so you were in school. You were a student in Asian school, elementary schools, and you understand the cultural differences. You know, what is it really that makes — what are some of the cultural highlights that really point out why it’s a little bit more reserved maybe than the excitement of a US school?

Doug Wong: Yeah, I think a lot has to do with the cultural upbringing, especially the parenting. Okay? So when you’re a kid — an Asian kid — you will be told not to speak up, okay, until you’re told.

Host: Oh.

Doug Wong: Yeah, so this is something very different, unlike the kids over here.

Host: They just speak up whenever they want.

Doug Wong: Very open to, yeah, express themselves. In fact, this is something that I have to learn through time to.

Host: Oh, yeah? Are you talking about even in the workplace, too, [inaudible] when to speak up?

Doug Wong: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Host: Oh, interesting. So what was the — I mean, coming here when you’re 19, I mean, that’s a pretty significant amount of time that you spent over in Hong Kong. So I’m sure coming here as a teenager — not even just a teenager. I mean, you’re almost in your 20s at this point. How was the adjustment coming to the United States?

Doug Wong: Well, it did take some getting used to. Again, it’s primarily the cultural issue. I’m always a very quiet person. Even now I’m a very quiet person. But then after a time I learned that you really have to learn to express yourself, express how you feel, what your opinions are. Otherwise people will see you as distant, not friendly, or in some cases just, you know, don’t pay too much attention to you. Okay? So this is something I learned through time. And that’s also one of the reasons why now at NASA I try to — in addition to my current work, I also tried to be involved in some of the employee resource group activities to try to help bring myself out. I also see the need for myself to give back to the next generation. So that becomes one of the things that I feel very passionate about.

Host: Oh, that’s fantastic. Yeah. I mean, even if you’re a little bit more introverted and maybe you are a nice person and maybe you do care about other people, but maybe since it’s not apparent, it’s not perceived that way. So you kind of actually have to force yourself to go on. I mean, I did that. That was college for me. College was a brand-new experience, and so you kind of had to force yourself to go out and make friends and to join organizations that may be didn’t know anyone, but you knew it was going to advance your career. And maybe make a couple of friends along the way. And actually, those friends are some of the closest I have right now and just because I decided at the time that I wanted to go out. And I was nervous at first, I was really hesitant. Maybe this is right for me. It’s kind of scary, but you got to go out and do it.

Doug Wong: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. It’s always very difficult when you first meet someone and try to talk to people. But once you warm up and develop the relationship, you find it very beneficial. This is something that time and time again I discovered. So.

Host: So I wanted to sort of get into your education, too, because it’s all over the place. You are — I mean, honestly it makes me wanting back to school and get a couple more degrees and some letters at the end of my signature there. But you had your hands in human factors, in the Constellation program, Orion. So how did you transition from coming here at 19 to eventually working at NASA and then going around NASA and getting all of these different experiences?

Doug Wong: Well, I think, again, school was a very important part of me. And I remember — I think my biggest motivation was there was one time after I came here, I watched a rerun of the Space Odyssey 2001 on TV.

Host: Oh, yeah.

Doug Wong: Man, that really inspired me. I said, “Oh wow. I mean, this is something that — I mean, [inaudible] near future, within my lifetime we can actually do these kind of things.” And then that fascinated me, and that kind of, like, started my career path. So I decided to study mechanical engineering in school. And I went to University of Maryland in College Park, and I got my BS degree around 1987. And then I moved right ahead and got my master degree also in mechanical engineering in the same school. And then right after that point I went straight to NASA. At that time I went to NASA Langley Research Center because — that was a different time, okay? See, unlike right now, which [inaudible] you can get here is to go through the pathway program.

Host: Right.

Doug Wong: They were actually out there in my school trying to hire people. And I got accepted. It was, of course, very exciting.

Host: Oh yeah.

Doug Wong: And so I spent 16 years of my career at the NASA Langley Research Center, primarily doing a lot of research related activities. And so that’s when I started exposed to things like electronics and developing electronics for instrumentation for internals. And then to human factors for aviation safety. And that was extremely interesting, by the way, because it’s like a video game, okay? What we do was we developed these play systems with all kinds of symbology, which is unlike — I mean, I should say which is very similar to the way people play video games, okay, that displays all different kinds of interesting icons. So that was a very interesting experience for me. And in fact, it touches a lot on safety-related issues. And that sort of built up the foundation for me to develop an interest in human factors and safety.

So about 12 years ago I transferred over to Johnson Space Center. So because of my background in that area I started working on the Constellation program and also the human research program and did a lot of human factors-related research.

Host: So for those who may not know, human factors — how does human factors relate to the engineering world? Like, how would you define human factors?

Doug Wong: Yeah. See, a lot of times when you think about engineering, we’re thinking about how the machine — designing machines, how the machines work, right, the intricate parts of the machines. But we often forgot a major part of any system is the human user, okay? So a lot of times if you don’t focus on that, we may develop something that is not to the liking of the user. It can be difficult to use. I’m sure sometimes you may have the experience of using a very difficult-to-use software. You get so frustrated. So that’s where the human factors engineering comes in. We try to make sure that the things that we develop have the user in mind. The user should be the center of your design because this is the problem that you want to solve. Right? You want to help the human.

Host: Which is — I mean, that’s the whole point of the human spaceflight, right? You can design a system that works, that’s robust, that’s functional. But if a human can’t use it as easily as possible, then maybe it’s not as efficient as possible or safe. And that’s where the safety comes in.

Doug Wong: Yeah, that’s part of the safety.

Host: Yeah. And that’s where you are now, right? Are you in safety and mission assurance?

Doug Wong: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s kind of, like, a gradual evolution of my career path. So now I’m in the safety area and actually involved in — to make sure that the things that we design are safe enough for a human to use.

Host: So how do you — so what’s your day-to-day stuff then? In safety and mission assurance, what are you doing may be hands-on or otherwise to make sure that whatever component that you’re focusing on — and I think you’re focusing on the Orbital ATK Cygnus, right, is that your focus?

Doug Wong: Yes, that’s correct.

Host: So how is the safety and mission assurance component in the overall process of making sure that that vehicle is going to work safely with the ISS and for the crew?

Doug Wong: Sure, yeah. Just for those who may not know, so Orbital ATK is one of the commercial companies who are developing these space cargo vehicles and develop cargoes — deliver cargoes up to the Space Station. So a big part of it is to ensure that the cargo that we deliver up to the station is safe. That has a lot of different aspects of it, one of them being the vehicle itself. We make sure that the vehicle design is sound and that during its operation it won’t have any hiccups, okay, for example, malfunctions. Say the engine blows up, that’s not a good thing. Right? When you’re approaching the Space Station. And even after the cargo vehicle is docked, what happens to the cargo inside? What happens if we have some unsafe cargo that can cause harm to the crew? So all these are things that we have to cover.

And once you’re starting to depart, we also have to worry about the safety of the station. Again, engine issue, okay? If the engines fire too early, or misfire, something went wrong with the spaceship, then it affects the station. So even though some people may say, “This is just a cargo vehicle, why is safety so important?” But there are these kind of things you have to worry about. Even when it’s after orbiting, entering the atmosphere, that could be a potential hazard to people on the ground, too.

Host: Yeah.

Doug Wong: So all these are things that we have to think about.

Host: And I think that’s the important part, is it’s the perspective that you’re approaching it at. So maybe another person is just worried about the cargo itself and making sure that it’s snug and packed and it’s going to work. Another person’s just concerned about the thrusters firing at the right time, at the right place, in the right direction. But you have to come in and make sure that not only are they firing in the right direction, but they’re going to do it in a safe manner to make sure that extra perspective is coming in.

Doug Wong: That’s correct. Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with my part in particular is to oversee all the — the entire design of the vehicle. Okay? So some engineers, they might be focusing on designing just an engine part, for example. They might overlook in some of the implication of the other side to the other portions. And also to the safety of the crew, for example. So all these are things that I need to look at from a bigger picture perspective to understand what kind of safety implications there are and make corrections to it.

Host: So looking back at your education in Hong Kong, moving to your education here, and then you’re career at NASA, what are some of the takeaways that really prepared you for doing what you’re doing right now, especially in your education?

Doug Wong: I think it’s the fundamental understanding of some of the basic math and physics, any kind of science topic. I have a very strong background in math and physics in particular. So I’m so surprised, even nowadays I still use some of the concepts regularly. In addition to my regular job, I consider myself an innovator. And right now I’m actually trying to submit a proposal to develop a space nail clipping system in which — see, in space, in the Space Station, because the crew stay there for a long time, their nails get long, okay? And they need to cut their nails.

Host: Oh, yeah. One of those things.

Doug Wong: Yeah. But right now — yeah, right now the way they do it, they just cut it right in front of a vent so a lot of the suction will suck it in, suck the nail clippings in. But that’s not a very safe way to do it, and some of the clippings can still airborne. And they can cause, for example, injuries your eyes. And nails may contain pathogens that will cause some disease. So what I’m trying to do is develop an enclosed system that provides a suction. So when the crew clip their nails, the nail clippings are automatically contained into the device. So I’m doing all that. So just incidentally this morning I was struggling with the physics of it. I was trying to figure out what size of pumps do I need to use? So all of a sudden, all the fundamental physics that I used to learn in high school all came back to me [Laughs]. Suddenly I just think, “Wow, I’m in my 50’s now and I’m still using the physics that I was taught when I was in high school.”

So that’s something eye-opening to me.

Host: So when you go back to the schools, that’s what you always usually say, is, “I’m still using this, I still need it in my job right now. So make sure you’re paying attention in school right now.”

Doug Wong: Absolutely.

Host: Yes. I feel like that nail clipping thing can be useful for me at home.

Doug Wong: Yeah, in fact, I’m trying to file a patent for it. So I see that, for example, people with disability, they will be able to make use of something like that so that they don’t have to keep worrying about the clippings flying all over the place. Instead they just go all right into the device.

Host: All right. Well, Doug, thank you for your contributions to NASA and for your innovations, coming here and making a difference. So thank you for coming on the podcast and telling your story.

Doug Wong: Thank you very much. I really appreciate this opportunity.

Host: And that was Doug talking about his journey from Hong Kong to a leader and inventor. So, Adam, who do we have next?

Adam Kalil:Next is Charlene Gilbert. She’s a technology transfer officer in the Exploration Technology Office.

Host: Interesting title and interesting job. So here we go, jumping right ahead to that talk. Well, Charlene, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to tell us your story.

Charlene Gilbert: Thanks.

Host: So I wanted to start with just growing up and just getting into STEM. Because you went for a math and statistics bachelor’s first. And that’s not something that I would personally opt for [Laughs].

Charlene Gilbert: So I grew up in a really small town in upper Michigan — Marquette, Michigan. Had a liberal arts university there. But a lot of the people that I went to school with don’t go on to college. It’s not typical. But my mother is Japanese and my father was a GI that she met during the Korean War. And then she came to this country in 1954, along with two of my brothers that had been born in Japan. And both of my parents were very adamant that all the kids were going to college, even though we didn’t have any money. It didn’t make any difference, right? So the thought of you better get a scholarship started really early. So when I was in probably sixth grade, seventh grade, that was — my mom was really adamant that you need to study hard and work hard because scholarship’s the way you’re going to college.

And we all worked to pay for college. We got scholarships. We borrowed money. But that was — that was the path that we were all on. So I had two brothers and one sister. And both brothers and myself went to college. And so it was not even debatable; it was just that’s where you were going.

[ Laughter ] But I always liked science a lot and math a lot when I was in school. And back in those days, young ladies weren’t really encouraged to pursue the hard sciences. Right? So first of all, people weren’t going to college. They’re not encouraged to go to college very much. And then the young ladies aren’t really encouraged to go into any of the STEM courses, right?

Host: So you did the opposite, then?

Charlene Gilbert: Yeah, well.

[ Laughter ] So and I think we only had one or widow young ladies that went after an engineering degree in my graduating class of 400. And but for myself, I started in a field of biology because I just really loved it.

Host: Oh, yeah.

Charlene Gilbert: And I got into it, and then I realized that with a bachelor’s degree you weren’t going to make very much money. So what’s required with a bachelor’s is you have to go on for master’s and PhD. And it seemed like a really, really long road. And so I thought — and, you know, again, we were working, everybody in my family working, borrowing money, and scholarships.

Host: Yes.

Charlene Gilbert: So you’re thinking about what can I do for a bachelor’s, right, that’s going to be meaningful and something I really want to pursue? And I’ve always really, really loved puzzles. And so I looked and I decided to change my degree over to math and statistics. And it’s applied statistics. So it was in the line of market research, doing sample surveys, and doing analysis on data, right? So that’s always something that I’ve enjoyed. And I thought, “Okay, well, I can do that.” And I set off on that path. And my plan was to get a master’s degree. But when arrived here and I started working in the fields that I was in, I realized that I didn’t need more detail in statistics; I needed a broader background in other areas. And so I pursued a space science degree at the University of Clear Lake.

Host: So you went — you had your bachelor’s and through your bachelor’s came to NASA first before realizing, “I should go back and learn more about space?”

Charlene Gilbert: Right.

Host: So how did you transfer from this math background to realizing that NASA was an opportunity?

Charlene Gilbert: Well, so we — the class of people in the math department was pretty small. So there was some classes where we filled the first row of seats in the class. That was how small it was. But a friend of mine was able to take a vacation after she graduated. The rest of us were looking for jobs [Laughs] and she took a vacation in Florida, saw a big ad that Ford Aerospace was hiring at the Kennedy Space Center. So she applied. And then they said, “Well, we don’t have any positions there, but we’ve got a new contract in Houston. Space Shuttle’s just starting up. And would you be interested?” So she came here, and then they said, “Do you have any more friends? Because we need to hire more people.” So she called all of us. And she called me and said, “What are you doing?” And I had been working at an insurance company, doing statistical analysis for them.

So I told her. And then I said, “Well, what are you doing?” And she said, “Well, I’m working on the Space Shuttle program.” Really? So it went on from there, and she talked me into coming for an interview. And I came down here, and they hired me. And I packed everything up in my little car and drove down here. And people were shocked. They said, you know, “Do you know anybody? Do you have family?” I said, “Well, I have one friend down here,” and I showed up.

Host: You didn’t want to pass that opportunity up?

Charlene Gilbert: Well, no, right? I mean, working at the insurance company or working on the Shuttle program, right? But the other thing is when I got down here, I realized that everybody comes from other places.

Host: Right.

Charlene Gilbert: So a lot of folks showed up with no friends, right? So there were a lot of us that had come from different areas. And we — we formed friendships. And we had a lot of social activity. And now it’s, you know, it’s home.

Host: Yeah. No, I totally get that. I came here as a co-op student myself and it was the same thing.

Charlene Gilbert: Right.

Host: You know, it was a brand-new opportunity far away from home. Parents were just like, “That’s a little far.” But I was like, “I don’t want to miss out on this.” So, you know, I came down here. But so did a lot of other students my age with the same goal in mind. And then we all just became friends, and we’re still friends to this day. So you kind — it’s funny, because you think you’re going to be alone, but then you just develop this community because there’s a lot of other people in the same boat.

Charlene Gilbert: We had some really interesting Thanksgiving dinners, you know, with mixed cultures and these are my favorite foods.

Host: Oh, yeah. We have that, too. Friends-giving is what we call it [Laughs]. All right. So you were working for Ford Aerospace first. And then McDonell Douglas shortly after that, was that the order?

Charlene Gilbert: Right, right. McDonnell Douglas was quite the engineering company here. And then after — afterwards, Boeing ended up buying McDonnell Douglas. And so both Ford Aerospace was sold, McDonnell Douglas was sold as all the companies began to merge together.

Host: Right.

Charlene Gilbert: So but while I was working for Ford Aerospace and when I worked for Ford, I worked in Building 30 and then Mission Control Center. My job was working and doing software development, and software tests, and software maintenance. And it was in the trajectory and logic, which is the mathematics that makes the ground computers work right.

Host: So you weren’t necessarily sitting on console, doing the trajectory; you were making the magic happen so that that person knew they had good software.

Charlene Gilbert: We had a dual job. So our job was to sit in the back room, support the FIDO, and track and dynamics. And then also when you weren’t doing that shift, you’re in the office, trying to fix the software to make the computer work. And back then they had the really big mainframes. And so it was a lot more challenging.

Host: Yeah, I can imagine. So first you started off in operations, and then I guess you stuck around at Johnson Space Center. Right? So kind of —

Charlene Gilbert: So then I had a chance to go over. My friend again [Laughs] moved, and she got me started in the track and dynamics area. And then she jumped to McDonnell Douglas, working in the payloads area. And she got me to move over. And so I followed her over there and I was working on attached payloads and Spacelab. And so that went on for a while. And then there was a big contract change and McDonnell Douglas didn’t win the contract. So pretty soon, you know, the choice was either to move to the new contract or find employment elsewhere. And I really wanted to stay here, but I was not really keen on moving to the new contract. And then I was fortunate, the civil servants NASA group that I had worked with before in Building 30 had an opening and they were able to hire. And so I was able to come on board.

Host: All right.

Charlene Gilbert: Right back where I started doing the track and dynamics kind of work. So.

Host: And then being civil servant, that’s when you started moving — throughout your whole career moved around. And you had your fingers in a lot of different areas, including the one that I really wanted to highlight is your position now. You’re a technology transfer officer. That’s interesting. So what do they do?

Charlene Gilbert: Well, so federal law says it’s our responsibility to transfer the technology and research results from federal funding, right, out into the public for economic growth, economic benefit, economic security. So each of the NASA field centers has a technology transfer officer. Actually, all of the federal labs are required to have a technology transfer officer. And their job is to ensure that they are compliant with tech transfer and try to the best of their ability to make it happen.

Host: It’s a very — I guess it’s a process to actually take the technology that we develop at NASA and, correct me if I’m wrong, give it to the private industry.

Charlene Gilbert: Right.

Host: Give it to private industry.

Charlene Gilbert: So it’s not like you put it in a bucket and you give to them, right?

Host: Yeah.

Charlene Gilbert: So there’s a lot of steps they have to go through to make sure that it’s appropriate, right? But some of the technology ends up in patents, which are licensed by companies that are looking to either improve their business or start a business, right? So people say, “Well, why don’t you just give it away?” Well, if — there’s no competitive edge when you have something that everybody else has.

Host: Right.

Charlene Gilbert: So a license to a patent gives you the ability to use that patent and can exclude others. It depends what type of license you have. You can have an exclusive license, which means nobody else can use that patent and you’re the only one — that’s the strongest competitive edge that you would have, right?

Host: Right.

Charlene Gilbert: But we also have software that is developed here that is unique. We do a lot of analysis and special software tools that we have. And those are also made available to the public for their use.

Host: All right. So I’m sure you’ve worked with a lot of different technologies, especially in the transfer as an officer, but what’s one that you really, really like to highlight, say this has been one that you really like to showboat sort of?

Charlene Gilbert: Well, I think the Bigelow inflatable structures is probably the one that is probably very well known and we’re really proud of.

Host: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good story, too, because it’s a technology that we developed here, but now it’s — I mean, you’re talking about the Bigelow expandable activity module?

Charlene Gilbert: Right.

Host: We’ve actually talked about it before on this podcast, which is great, but I mean, didn’t really realize or didn’t really address that it was a technology transfer, that we’re taking this technology and working with — it was Bigelow’s company, right?

Charlene Gilbert: Right

Host: And now we have actual hardware that has been tested on the International Space Station. And last I heard it’s going to stay there.

Charlene Gilbert: Yes, right? And so the next step after that would be — he’s a very shrewd businessman, right? He has a very long-term vision.

Host: Oh, yeah.

Charlene Gilbert: And he has always talked about creating private structures, right? It may be a private Space Station, it might be a hotel for tourism. But his thought in the very beginning was to create a new, new industry structure for the United States — a manufacturing capability. So he’s always had a really long-range vision, which I think really gave us confidence in licensing this technology to him that he was going to take it and make something of it that turns into a commercial venture, right? But all along the way, right, he created this aerospace company, Bigelow Aerospace Company. He made tremendous financial investment in the north Las Vegas area. So jobs were being created and products were being created.

And new knowledge was being created.

Host: Wow, shows the real potential of a piece of technology that, handed over to private industry, now it’s becoming — it’s real. It’s a real piece of technology. A lot of the people work on it, right? And it’s for developing the space business, I guess. That’s a fantastic concept.

Charlene Gilbert: Yes.

Host: Well, Charlene, thank you so much for coming on, and telling your story, and giving us a little bit of insight into this wonderful world of technology transfer.

Charlene Gilbert: All right. Glad to be here. Thank you.

Host: Of course. Okay, that was Charlene Gilbert talking about her journey to her current role in exploration technology as a technology transfer officer. It’s a pretty cool job. So one more to go. Who is our last guest?

Adam Kalil:Okay, Gary. Last is Ven Feng. He’s the manager of the International Space Station Transportation Integration Office, meaning he’s in charge of the integration and verification of all the vehicles that visit the Space Station — the cargo vehicles like Orbital ATK Cygnus and SpaceX Dragon, the international partners’ vehicles like the Russian Soyuz and the Japanese HTV, and soon the commercial crew vehicles from Boeing and SpaceX.

Host: Yeah, it’s not like he’s looking after one thing; he looks after all of those things. It’s a pretty cool job. So Producer Alex, let’s do that final warp to that final talk. Ven, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to tell us your story.

Ven Feng: It’s a real pleasure being here. Thanks for the invitation.

Host: Of course. I kind of wanted to start with — as I’ve been doing with all the other guests so far — is just how it all began, especially when you got interested in STEM and when you grew up and got interested in science technology.

Ven Feng: Sure, sure. I’d say when I was very young. So I grew up in northern Alabama where the skies were very dark at night, and my father and my sister and I would lay outside on the hills at night. And we would watch the stars. So my dream and aspiration every since I was a small kid was to be an astronomer or maybe travel there myself as an astronaut. And this was in the late ’60s. So, of course, it was in the news a lot. So for me at that time science fiction and science were sort of blended. And I always sort of thought or knew maybe early on that I wanted to go into a STEM field.

Host: So were you, like, a Trekkie fan or anything like that? Or mainly just looking at the stars, telescopes or anything?

Ven Feng: Oh, absolutely. I could name the title of every Star Trek show —

Host: Oh, really?

Ven Feng: — within about 20 seconds of it starting when I was a kid.

Host: Wow, now that’s a fan. Okay. Very cool. So then at what point did you decide, you know, through your childhood really looking at the science fiction, especially with Star Trek, but then realizing that maybe STEM was a field that you really wanted to pursue?

Ven Feng: You know, I really had very broad interests. You know, as a kid I was always very interested in math and science. I also liked sports. For a long time I thought I would go into business but I would go into a business that would help me — that would use my math and science background to, you know, further myself in some sort of type of business or in some other commercial venture. And I think that combination really sort of led me to where I am now, which was here at NASA but helping with commercial partners for the commercial resupply missions and for commercial crew coming up here in the future as well.

Host: Yeah, that’s right. Because your job position now is working with those companies, right, with a lot of them?

Ven Feng: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, that’s right. So I’ve worked — in the past I’ve worked Space Shuttle and Spacelab. And I’ve been with the Space Station program now for sometime. In my current job I’m helping with the fleet of spacecraft that come to and from the Space Station. And, of course, they have a fleet of five now, including two US vehicles, as well as two vehicles from Russia and one from Japan. But we have two more on the horizon here in the next year or so. And then we have another US commercial crew vehicle, a commercial cargo vehicle coming a few years down the line, and another Japanese one in the future. So we’re going to be taking our fleet of five spacecraft today and expanding those as they come to and from the Space Station in the coming years.

Host: So what are the five that you’re working with right now, then?

Ven Feng: Let’s see. Today we’re working with the US vehicles, our Orbital ATK Cygnus and the SpaceX Dragon. With the Russians we have the Russian Progress and Soyuz. And with the Japanese partners we have the HTV — H-II Transfer Vehicle.

Host: Okay. So those are all cargo. These are all cargo vehicles.

Ven Feng: Yeah, with the exception of the Russian Soyuz [inaudible].

Host: And the Soyuz, right. Okay. So then — yeah, besides the Soyuz, all of these different companies are developing these cargo vehicles to work with one vehicle, right, the International Space Station. So is that where you come in with you are working to make sure that, you know, these companies are going to be able to — when they create these unique vehicles, it’s going to work with the Space Station?

Ven Feng: Absolutely right. So there’s so many factors that go into how do you launch a spacecraft from the planet, catch it up to the Space Station traveling at 17,500 miles per hour orbiting the planet, and then have it close to a very safe distance, and then ultimately come up and either birth or dock to the Space Station? So we help, and there’s so many aspects that. There’s guidance, navigation, and control. There’s structural systems, thermal systems, life support systems, and so forth. So there’s just a lot of different aspects that my group, my team helps to look at to make sure that they can come up both safely and operate with a high probability of mission success.

Host: So you think you have — is it a fairly large team or is it a small group of people that are working with all these different companies?

Ven Feng: Let’s see, our Transportation Integration Office, we typically staff between two to three people — persons — person vehicle. But, of course, we’re relying on a huge team of folks from engineering and each of the engineering disciplines, from operations, from safety, cargo integration, and so forth. So there’s really quite a pretty extensive team. So we’ve got a small team that’s helping to do the integration of the contract management of those vehicles or the international partner integration. And then but we really rely on a lot of experts in a lot of areas as well.

Host: That’s right. So your team is sort of — I guess you are going to make sure that you are, I guess — in the Transportation Integration Office, you’re mainly getting all these components together. Is that your role, then, making sure everybody’s working together and executing this to make sure it happens?

Ven Feng: That’s absolutely right. So we’ve got the technical integration, there’s a schedule integration. There’s also, you know, there’s — any spacecraft integration is difficult, right? Working with all the various launch vehicles, as well as the spacecraft, there can be risks as well — risk from a cost perspective, from schedules, as well as from a technical. So we really make sure that we mitigate all of those to whether or not elevated risk many of those areas. But if they are, then we make sure that we inform our program manager and headquarters up the line in case there are any remaining risks so that as a nation we can go forward and decide eyes wide open do we want do proceed with this particular mission or this particular configuration?

Host: Wow. Okay. So you’re just keeping track of everything and making sure when it comes down to the mission, everything’s going to work, really.

Ven Feng: Mm-hmm.

Host: How is it with working with so many companies, then? Because I’m sure that each one is different in its own way. So it’s not like you can apply the same sort of — maybe you do apply mainly the same rules, but it must be different working with each one.

Ven Feng: It is. Every single one is different. Just like every individual is different, every team and every company or every international partner has its own culture and blending of individuals, right? And they’ve all come to us not only from a different culture but from a different spacecraft heritage, right? So it is very different working. And it’s funny. As just one example of that, if I have — we work with several different contractors as I mentioned before. So we work with Orbital ATK, we work with SpaceX, we work with Sierra Nevada. And each of those companies has its own sort of culture. But if I go — I’m off on business trips and when I go and I’ll pack, I’ll literally have to pack — not have to pack — I’ll choose to pack different sets of clothing essentially for each of those places. Because the culture in each of these industries and each of those companies is different from company to company. And that’s just a very minor example of they’re just different. They come from different heritages, and they have different perspectives on things. But they’re all based in the same set of requirements that we laid on each of those US contractors.

It’s a document called SSP50808. And it defines, it aggregates all those things that we learned from the Shuttle program, from Station side of the interface, and really have their heritage from the very early Apollo, Gemini, and Mercury programs as well. And we put those all into one book and given those to industry. And that’s what they’re building their vehicles to — the interface of their vehicles to.

Host: I see. So it’s essentially create your own identity, do what you think is best; but whatever you do, it has to fit these requirements. You have to make sure you’re playing by these rules. Otherwise it’s not going to work. We’re not going to be able to play ball, I guess.

Ven Feng: Yep, that’s correct. So you can see the vehicles and just from their physical appearance, you can see they’re very different vehicles. But when they comes to Station, they all have to match up perfectly.

Host: Yeah.

Ven Feng: Even in the early days of Space Station there was a lot of the discussion, “Well, are we going to do things in English units of measure or in metric?”

Host: Oh, yeah.

Ven Feng: And even then once we selected metric, once you look at metric, there’s actually different standards for metric as well. So once you get out there four or five decimal places, there can be small differences, which can then end up making differences in making sure everything connects correctly up on orbit.

Host: Oh, wow. Even the units that you’re using can translate. Now, that’s just talking about cargo vehicles. But you are already talking about looking forward at commercial crew. Now, I’m sure that’s going to be — it’s going to be a challenge of its own. Because now you’re not just dealing with just equipment; now you’re dealing with people. So is that a little bit harder of a world because — is there extra constraints?

Ven Feng: There absolutely are. We look at things from having humans on board, there’s going to be a different set of interfaces and controls that are in place for human-rated systems. Now, these cargo vehicles still have human interfaces as in they go to Station, they become attached, and our crew members go in and out of them. So they also have to adhere to human-rating standards. But with the commercial crew vehicles, absolutely. If we’re going to have people on board for the time it takes to get on orbit and perhaps at any — if there’s cases where they may stay longer on orbit inside that vehicle, there’s going to be accommodations for those humans as well. So absolutely, we have to consider all those aspects.

Host: It’s just amazing, the broad scope of things that you and your team really have to manage. And you’re the manager of this group, right? The Transportation Integration Office. So and you’ve had quite a career at NASA in various aspects. You were a programmer, instructor for flight controller, working in payloads, working in avionics. You were kind of all over the place but eventually got to this management position. And so what did you have to do and what were your goals to sort of work up the ladder and really hone your skills into management to look at something so broad?

Ven Feng: That’s interesting. I — I think my overall guiding principles, I always wanted to do something that made a difference beyond myself for a longer period, you know, perhaps hundreds or an even longer horizon. And for me, when I looked around after college, a lot of friends of mine as we were going through college went to work in different industries. And when I really took a look around and as I was within a couple years of graduation, really deciding which way I’m going to funnel my efforts in the future, really discerned that space flight is really where I wanted to be. And smaller and even more targeted than that, human space flight. And then so when I looked around, it really became the center — Johnson Space Center, which is what really interested me. So once I got here, as quickly as I could, I went to go work for the Space Shuttle and Spacelab programs. And from there, within the overall broad umbrella of I want to do things that make a difference, I looked at what those things were that really interested me. So at the time Space Shuttle — of course, I grew up just watching every Space Shuttle launch.

And Space Station was the next new thing that I really wanted to contribute to and be a part of. So I came to Space Station. Within Space Station it’s been a wonderful career being able to try different areas. So I’ve got to go through quite a number of different areas and work in a lot of different areas. And I think really that desire to do that as well as a lot of the opportunities and a lot of great folks I’ve worked with and for in the past really enabled me to try a lot of different areas and really sort of culminated in the ability to be able to do this integration job where I can look across many different systems and subsystems and really apply things that I learned in the past to our next generation of vehicles.

Host: Yeah. Now, besides the broad scope of technical expertise that you’ve acquired over the years, there’s also this idea of managing people and getting everyone to work together and enjoy the jobs that they’re doing and make sure that all of these requirements are being filled. So how do you as a manager make sure that all of this is being done and in the most fluid and efficient manner possible?

Ven Feng: I’d say it really — there is no single way [Laughs]. Right? I think the most important overarching thing is to align the organizational needs with the individuals’ goals as well. And that way what individuals want to do, if you can put them in the right positions that help further their goals at the same time as furthering the organization’s goals, then everybody’s happy.

Host: Yeah.

Ven Feng: I also try to provide near real-time feedback — in public if it’s praise; and in private if it’s an opportunity for improvement. And then I also try to recognize folks. I think everybody has a different way in which or different ways in which they like to be recognized. Some like public recognition. Some may like an on-the-spot award. Some may want a time-off award in order to go spend more time with their family. Others may want those plum assignments and they’re just — they just constantly want more and more. And if they get those big media assignments, that really invigorates them. So really just trying to align what the organization needs to get done with what each individual really — what really excites them.

Host: I love it. So looking forward to the future, you have all these different vehicles that you’re working with and working with businesses here in the US but also international partners. There’s a lot going on and a lot going on in the future; what’s the thing you’re looking forward to most?

Ven Feng: Gosh, I think we’re at a real — you know, it was very interesting. Just a few years ago with the transition from the old previous program called Constellation, then retirement of the Space Shuttle, you know, NASA sort of came to an end of the Shuttle chapter. And then that was a time where there was a little question about, you know, what’s really the next step? And I think it’s really exciting now because I think you see a lot of public interest, commercial interest, international interest, political interest in space. And there’s a lot of exciting things going on right now. On the Space Station we’ve really hit our groove. And I think that we are doing so many interesting scientific experiments onboard Space Station. We have commercial industry participating. I would say seven or eight years ago, we weren’t sure that commercial industry on a firm fixed-price basis could develop new rockets and new spacecraft and resupply the Space Station. On an international front, we’ve been working with these 15 countries on the International Space Station for — this year it will be 20 years, which is a pretty amazing thing, given all the things that are happening or have happened on the planet over the last 20 years.

And in many other areas, diplomatically, militarily some of those countries weren’t always best of friends, but on the Space Station I would say that we have always, without an exception, pulled together to make sure that we did the right things for the crew and for the vehicle and for the partnership.

Host: That’s wonderful. Just laying it out like that, that’s such a nice — like, that’s such a nice overview of just the state that we are right now, looking backwards but then also looking forwards to say just based on looking at this environment that we’re working in right now, there’s so much that can still happen. And there’s so many different ways to grow. So thank you, Ven, for coming on and telling your story and kind of giving us this broad perspective of Space Station and what’s to come.

Ven Feng: Great. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

Host: Well, Adam, that wraps up our guests for this episode. Thanks for helping to get these incredible people to come on and tell their stories.

Adam Kalil:Sure, my pleasure. I’m glad to be here, Gary. And thank you for this great show and for this great opportunity to share and know our co-workers in the workforce.

Host: Oh, I was really happy to do it. They were — honestly, it was really a pleasure to talk to each and every one of them. They have interesting stories and interesting jobs, too. Really, I mean, they do a lot of important stuff. I just love talking to all of these great people. So if you want to know — if you want to learn more from other great people, you can listen to other episodes of this podcast. This was episode 46. But really, you don’t really need to listen to them in any particular order. You can just go back and listen to any one. And there’s some great stories. I would definitely recommend listening to Stories of Her Strength from Women’s History Month and African-American History Month episodes also — really good podcasts and really good guests that we have there. Otherwise you can listen to some of our friends over at other centers. NASA in Silicon Valley over at Ames Research Center has a podcast. And then Gravity Assists is the podcast over at headquarters hosted by Dr. Jim Green to talk about planetary science. Otherwise you can follow the NASA Johnson Space Center on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And use the hashtag #askNASA to ask a question or maybe suggest an episode for a future talk where we can bring in guests and tell more stories.

Just be sure to mention it’s for Houston, We Have a Podcast. So this podcast, this episode was recorded all through the month of May 2018 thanks to Alex Perryman, Kelly Humphries, Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford, and, of course, to Adam here for helping to bring it all together. Thank you, Adam.

Adam Kalil:Sure, thanks.

Host: And thanks again to all of our guest for coming today on this show – Krystine Bui, Doug Wong, Charlene Gilbert, and Ven Feng. Happy Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month. We’ll be back next week.

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