Traverse to Geology Station 3

Orange Soil

 

Geology Station 3 at Ballet Crater

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1995 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Audio clips by Dave Shaffer.
Last revised 5 November 2017.

MP3 Audio Clip starting at 144:26:14 ( 21 min 05 sec )

144:26:30 Schmitt: I got your gnomon.

144:26:32 Cernan: Sun shadow is zero. Pitch...If I can get it over to read it. Pitch is...Pitch is zero. (Pause) Roll is zero. About one (degree) left, Bob.

[As shown in Figure 1-27 the Sun Shadow Device (SSD) is normally folded down again the face of the console. To take a reading, Gene raised the arm and read the position of the gnomon shadow on the scale. A reading of zero indicates that he is parked on a heading directly away from the Sun. Don McMillan has provided an animation (2 Mb) of the Sun Shadow device being put in position to provide a reading. The pitch and roll indicators are part of a single instrument mounted on the left side of the control console, as can be seen in Figure 1-22 from the LRV Handbook. Normally, the pitch indicator faces Gene and, in order to read roll, he has to rotate the instrument 90 degrees. See Figure 1-26 in the Handbook.]

[Cernan - "While it is possible that I was leaning over to the right and maybe down a little bit to read the pitch indicator without parallax, what 'get it over to read' sounds like is that the indicator had flopped up and was showing me roll when I wanted to read pitch first."]

144:26:57 Cernan: About one left.

144:27:00 Parker: And how about heading?

144:27:03 Cernan: Heading is 282.

144:27:06 Parker: Okay, go ahead and park. We'll give you an update when you get done. (Pause)

144:27:09 Cernan: What else do you need?

144:27:10 Parker: That's all we need. Go ahead and park on your 045. We'll give you an update when you are done.

144:27:21 Cernan: Jack, is it worth coming right there?

144:27:26 Schmitt: Looks like a pretty good location.

144:27:28 Cernan: Okay.

[Figure 7a ( 930k ) from the Apollo 17 Professional Paper shows the location of Station 3 in relation to Lara and the Scarp. Figure 6-108 ( 47k ) from USGS Professional Paper 1080 is a planimetric map of Station 3. See, also, a detailed discussion of the Station 3 location based on Hasselblad images taken at the station and a high-resolution image from the Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter.]

144:28:08 Parker: Okay, I copy that.

144:28:09 Schmitt: It probably shows up as a bright crater on your map. There's only about a half a centimeter of gray cover over very white material that forms the rim.

144:28:23 Parker: Okay. And, Gene, give me a call when you get parked and I'll give you an update on what we want to do.

144:28:38 Cernan: Okay, I am parked.

144:28:40 Parker: Okay. We'll take the Rover readout first.

144:28:45 Cernan: Okay. 087, 12.7, 6.0; 105 and 100. On the battery temps: 100, 120. The rear motors are off scale low and the forward motors are 0 and 240.

144:29:03 Parker: Okay, we copy that. Understand that 240 now instead of a 340. And what is the heading, 045?

144:29:13 Cernan: Heading is 043.

144:29:15 Parker: Okay. We copy that.

144:29:16 Cernan: If I ever gave you a motor temperature of 340, that figure was erroneous.

144:29:23 Parker: Okay; Roger. And what we'd like you to do, Gene, is we'd like you to get the CSVC by yourself, that will essentially be your sole task at this station. We'd like Jack to do some solo sampling. We'd like to get one pan and the gravimeter, and then we'll leave this station. We're going to absorb some of the time we spent with the extra gravimeter reading and some of the time we absorbed at Station 2 in the longer stay time in sampling at Station 3. That's our plan. So it will be CDR for the CSVC - or the long can, excuse me - and LMP for solo sampling and then a pan by Jack, I presume, and then the gravimeter and then leave. And, Jack, you might check your film. We aren't quite sure where you are right now, before you get too far from the Rover.

144:30:17 Schmitt: Okay, Bob. (Long Pause)

[Gene will take a core sample, hammering a connected pair of drive tubes into the ground. The long can (Core Sample Vacuum Container or CSVC) is designed to hold one of the drive tube sections. The tasks originally planned for Station 3 are listed on LMP/CDR-17.]

[TV on.]

144:30:46 Cernan: Bob, you got (pause) any preference up in this area where you want that long can?

144:30:54 Parker: Negative. That's something that was sort of near the Scarp, but you're parked so near the Scarp and that's something, remember when we do it in solo, we only did it with the Rover, so you'd have to stay right there beside the Rover and do it. No expectations of doing it otherwise.

[Schmitt - "Gene needed someplace to lay the long-can cap. When we did it together, I'd hold the cap."]

144:31:10 Schmitt: Gene. I think you're in good shape.

144:31:13 Cernan: Yeah, I don't have any other choice.

144:31:15 Schmitt: Matter of fact, if there is a scarp, and if it is a fault...

144:31:18 Cernan: I'm right...

144:31:19 Schmitt: ...you're right on it because the projection of it would be uphill a little bit.

[They are parked just east of the top of the Scarp. Fendell pans counter-clockwise.]

144:31:25 Parker: Okay, and, Jack, what's your frame count?

144:31:35 Schmitt: (Having difficulty reading the indicator) Well, (pause) 122.

144:31:43 Parker: Okay, copy that.

144:31:44 Schmitt: Bob, I've dug a trench in the...

144:31:44 Parker: (To Jack) You can work the rest (of the Station) without a mag change. (Making a mis-identification) Go ahead, Gene.

144:31:44 Schmitt: What do you need, Gene? (Pause) (Realizing whatever it is that Gene needs) Oh, yeah. (To Bob) Bob, I dug a trench in the side of this crater. I've got down-Sun pictures of it. There's quite a marbling of light and dark soil or fine grain material. It looks as if there's a uniform, about 3-centimeter (thick) layer of light material over that marbled light and dark. On the very top surface, there's a half centimeter of light gray, and when I say "dark", I mean a "medium gray".

[Fendell briefly catches Gene on his way to the gate. Jack's cross-Sun and down-Sun "before" pictures of the trench are AS17-138- 21143 to 21147.]

[Frames 21148 and 21149 are the "afters" he has just finished taking.]

144:32:38 Schmitt: Okay, I'm going to start sampling the soils, and then I'll get you the fragments.

[Fendell finds Jack on the rim of a small, raised-rim crater northwest of the Rover.]

[Here, Bob is referring to the light-colored, subsurface material which, presumably, is similar to the material Gene discovered at Station 2 and at the Scarp gravimeter stop.]

144:32:57 Schmitt: Oh, there's no guarantee (that we can reach it). This is a crater rim.

144:33:00 Parker: Okay. And, Gene, are you still near the Rover?

144:33:07 Cernan: Yeah, I am.

144:33:09 Parker: Okay, we'd like to get the SEP blankets opened, Gene, and dusted if they're dirty, so they can cool some more.

144:33:18 Cernan: (Unhappily) Oh, boy!

144:33:20 Parker: (Sympathetically) Yup.

[Fendell looks at Jack, scooping soil with his back to the Rover. The low-gain antenna is in the way.]

144:33:29 Parker: Okay. Roger on that. I think you'll be pounding on the hammer for a long while while you can take the gravimeter reading.

[Jack pours soil in a sample bag; he gets about a half cup.]

144:33:36 Cernan: Yeah. Well, we'll see. Let me get your brush back. (Pause)

[Jack plants the scoop in the ground and closes the bag.]

[Jack goes to the Rover to get an SCB. There are sample bags hanging from his camera.]

[The gravimeter will remain on the Rover for this measurement. If Gene had started the measurement, Jack couldn't have gotten an SCB off the Rover without ruining the measurement.]

144:34:29 Schmitt: They should be.

144:34:31 Cernan: Okay, that's where they are and the temperature is about 104 and...

144:34:35 Schmitt: No, they should be Off. Isn't it Off?

144:34:37 Cernan: No, it was Standby.

144:34:38 Schmitt: No, push it Off.

144:34:40 Parker: Okay, it doesn't matter whether it's Standby; it won't be (garbled) that temperature anyway, but put it Off.

144:34:46 Schmitt: Okay. It might have gotten hit when I changed the blanket. (Pause)

[Fendell is looking at a small crater north of the Rover.]

144:35:16 Parker: Yeah, 17, the PLSSs look great.

144:35:21 Cernan: Okay, back to Intermediate. How's Ron doing?

144:35:25 Parker: They're both looking...Stand by. (Pause) Ron's doing great, too. He's sitting here busily...

144:35:37 Cernan: No, no.

144:35:38 Parker: Go ahead.

144:35:43 Cernan: I mean Captain America.

144:35:45 Parker: Yeah, I'm just inquiring of Bob (Overmyer, the Command Module CapCom). I think he's doing great. He's just passed a little bit north of you a couple of minutes ago and took some pictures of you. (Long Pause)

[The TV jiggles as Gene works around the Rover. Fendell returns to Jack at the rim of Ballet Crater, so named because of later events.]

[Gene is out of sight at the gate and, having removed the long-can cap and having taken the rake off of one of the extension handles, is fitting the extension handle on the drive tubes. Jack has a sample bag in his left hand and gets the scoop in his right. If he has gotten an SCB off of the Rover, it isn't currently visible.]

[Schmitt - "As I recall, I spent a few tens of seconds trying to find a place to set it so that it would stand; and I think I ended up off to the side a bit with it."]

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144:37:09 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

144:37:19 Cernan: Okay, Bob, I guess I'm going to go pound away (on a drive tube); and, Jack, I'm going to hit the gravimeter.

[Jack plants the scoop.]

144:37:30 Cernan: Okay. Mark it.

144:37:31 Parker: Copy that.

144:37:36 Schmitt: And 521 is the sample bag.

144:37:41 Parker: Copy that. (Long Pause)

144:37:57 Cernan: Well, the first core has gone down pretty good, Bob.

[The drive tube sections are each 42 cm long.]

[Fendell leaves Jack.]

144:38:13 Cernan: Oh, man, I tell you, I wish I was putting a drill hole in here. This is pretty nice. (Pause)

[Fendell backtracks and goes by Jack again as he refurbishes his trench and gets the next sample.]

144:39:34 Parker: Copy that, Jack.

[Schmitt - "With two of us working together, bagging samples was fairly easy; but it was a lot harder solo. A lot harder. You had to hold the bag in one hand, and somehow or another get your scoop out over it so that you could dump something in it. And it was not easy, because you're moving your arms against the pressure in the suit while gripping both the bag and the scoop."]

[Jack sounds tired. Fendell finds Gene, southeast of the Rover, pounding the core with the flat of the hammer. It is going in at about 2 inches per stroke. Because he is working above waist height, the suit allows him to swing the hammer in a vertical plane.]

[Gene stops hammering; puts the hammer in his shin pocket and looks at his checklist.]

[Gene goes to the Rover.]

144:40:02 Cernan: Bob, what do you think, can I read a gravimeter?

144:40:05 Parker: Yup, if it's not flashing...

144:40:07 Cernan: The light's out.

144:40:09 Parker: Yeah, it should be just done.

144:40:15 Cernan: 670, 049, 701; 670, 049, 701.

144:40:21 Parker: Okay, I copy that.

[Gene gets a 70-mm camera from Jack's seat.]

144:40:34 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

144:40:41 Cernan: Bob, I forgot to give you the core numbers, but I will.

[Gene takes a stereopair of the drive tube from the south. These are AS17-137- 20981 and 20982.]

[Gene puts the camera on Jack's seat so that he can work more easily with the core and the long can.]

[Schmitt - "There was no note. Gene and Bob were just teasing the scientists, threatening to contaminate the sealed sample. This was a real-time 'put on' that Bob came up with; and Gene just fell in with the spirit of it instantaneously. I'm pretty sure it wasn't planned, although it could have been based on something that had come up in training."]

[Cernan - "I don't remember this, but I don't think there was any note. It was just a little bantering back and forth between Bob and I to make people wonder. I'd like to know if that can's ever been opened, because I think they were going to keep it sealed for some indeterminate length of time."]

[In a recent conversation, Bob recalled that this sample was going to be preserved in pristine condition until significantly better analytic techniques became available. During training, they had joked about putting in a note. The long can would be a time capsule and the note would be a surprise greeting from the past. Of course, an actual note would have contaminated the sample and would have spoiled the joke.]

[Gene grunts as he pulls the core out of the ground.]

144:41:47 Parker: Copy that.

[Twelve of the fifteen rocks Jack collected at Station 3 turned out to be breccias, four of them blue-gray and very similar to the blue-gray boulders sampled at Stations 2, 6, and 7.]

[Gene examines the end of the core and then brings it to the TV camera.]

144:42:02 Schmitt: Yes.

144:42:04 Cernan: If you see it, Bob, it's full. See that?

[Gene is assuring Houston that, even in this soft soil, little of the core has been lost during extraction.]

[Gene has the tip of the core in his left hand and the body of the core in his right; he is standing at the right side of the Rover, facing forward, the core tube at right-angles to the Rover chassis and the tip pointing toward the rear-facing TV camera. We only get an oblique view of the dirt filling it. He flips the core 180 degrees, the top of it going up past his left shoulder, and turns his body 90 degrees so that he is facing the Rover, the core is parallel to the Rover chassis. Now, the tip is in his right hand, pointing forward and straight into the TV. It is chock full of soil. Individual pebbles or small clods are clearly visible.]

144:42:30 Cernan: Well, I know... Jack? Shoot. Thought I had them (the core tube caps) on the Rover.

[Gene leans over Jack's seat. During the Rover preps at 141:03:27 Gene put a core cap dispenser on SCB-7 which, at 141:05:46, he then put under Jack's seat. At 141:16:50, as per checklist, he put another dispenser on the bag Jack as wearing, SCB-8, which Jack wore until the end of Station 2 at 143:42:42. Gene briefly hung SCB-8 on the tool gate but then, at Houston's suggestion, they put it under his seat. Jack is currently wearing SCB-4.]

144:42:38 Cernan: Oh, the core cap covers. I'll get them.

144:42:40 Schmitt: No, you got some there in that little (pause) pocket.

144:42:43 Cernan: Yeah, and there's so many bags in here, I can't get at them.

144:42:46 Schmitt: No, I mean the pocket on the Rover, on the back. Remember?

[It is not clear what pocket Jack is referring to here. Possibly a pocket on an SCB on the gate.]

144:42:52 Schmitt: Oh, okay.

[Apparently, Gene transferred the SCB-8 dispenser to SCB-4, the one Jack is now wearing, when he changed Jack's bag at the end of Station 2.]

[Gene goes to Jack at the crater. Fendell starts panning.]

144:43:10 Schmitt: Well, it's hard.

144:43:12 Cernan: Your hook (attachment for the SCB on the PLSS) came off. If you wait a minute, I'll hook it on this bag.

144:43:22 Schmitt: Okay. (Pause) I didn't think the sample bags could come off the camera. But they can.

[A twenty-bag packet of sample bags is attached to the camera bracket and that attachment isn't working properly. The Apollo 16 crew had a similar problem and the attachment had been re-designed in between the missions. As Jack tells Bob at 144:58:51, he has bent the "mounting point". At the end of the EVA, Jack will take a bag holder into the cabin with the camera and, during the rest period, will fix the attachment hardware. His bag holder will work perfectly during EVA-3.]

144:43:30 Cernan: Well. Doggone it.

144:43:33 Schmitt: What's your problem?

144:43:36 Cernan: (Might) just as well fix this bag now. Let me get this bag. It's going to come off at the bottom if I don't. It's going to come off again. I don't think the harness is tight enough now.

144:43:53 Schmitt: Want to tighten the harness?

[Fendell is examining layering on the East Massif.]

144:43:58 Schmitt: Okay.

144:43:59 Cernan: Let me get your harness. I might just as well do it, so it's right. (A little exasperated) If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right. (Pause)

[Cernan - "This is something that my father used to say, and I'm glad I said it on the Moon. 'If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right.' And then he'd add: 'Or you're just going to have to do it over again.' His name was Andy. Andrew George Cernan. And he also used to say 'I'll only ever ask of you to do your best.' Whether it was in studying, or playing football or playing the clarinet - which I tried to do but never did very well. 'You may not be better than everyone else at everything,' he said, 'but if you do your best, sometime, your going to shine in something. And there's only one person in the world who knows what's your best: and that's you.' A good man."]

144:44:23 Schmitt: Okay.

144:44:24 Cernan: You're plenty short enough.

144:44:26 Schmitt: Thanks. Thanks a lot. (Laughs)

144:44:28 Cernan: This bag, that hook...There's something changing the geometry.

144:44:34 Parker: Okay, don't worry about it too much, guys; I'm sure the bag will stay on without the hook.

144:44:35 Cernan: (Garbled under Bob) (Responding to Bob) Yeah, it will; (that's) the conclusion I just came to.

144:44:43 Schmitt: You through?

144:44:44 Cernan: Yeah, go ahead. (Long Pause)

[Fendell pans past Jack, who is going to his Rover seat. Fendell then looks north along the Scarp toward Hanover.]

144:45:47 Parker: Okay, copy that. (Pause) And, Jack, (are) you just scooping up little rocks along the surface there...in your little xenolith mode?

[A xenolith is a foreign rock; and Bob is suggesting that Jack collect as many different types of rocks as he can find.]

144:46:03 Parker: Go ahead, Gene.

[Fendell finds Jack back at the near rim of the crater. An SCB is now on the ground beside him.]

144:46:15 Parker: Go ahead, Gene.

[Jack goes to the north rim of the crater and gets a scoopful of soil.]

[That is, a small amount of dirt fell out of the core tube. Meanwhile, Jack's scoop has fallen to the ground. In order to free both hands for closing a sample bag, he leaned the scoop against his thigh, but it slipped off and fell.]

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144:47:00 Cernan: Yeah. I'll do that. (Long Pause)

[Facing cross-slope, Jack bobs down onto his uphill (right) knee and grabs the scoop. He has no trouble getting back up. He then goes to the SCB to stow the sample.]

[Schmitt - "Facing up a slope like that, it was easy to get down and back up."]

144:47:23 Schmitt: (That was) bag 526.

144:47:26 Parker: Copy; 526.

[Jack gets another sample bag off the hook on his camera bracket, but drops the whole packet.]

[Jack leans on the scoop and retrieves the packet of bags easily.]

144:47:39 Parker: Copy that. Go ahead, Gene.

[Bob is anxious to get the tube number recorded.]

144:47:52 Parker: Okay.

144:47:53 Schmitt: And my bags aren't staying on my camera worth a darn.

[Jack is trying to re-attach them to the camera bracket.]

144:47:58 Parker: Copy that. (Long Pause)

144:48:16 Cernan: Boy, another exercise in dexterity.

[Jack reaches for his cooling control, doing the double wave to reach back far enough.]

144:48:40 Cernan: And, by the way, I'm at about 49 percent (oxygen remaining) and 3.85 (psi suit pressure) and Intermediate cooling and no flags.

[With some difficulty, Jack hops up the soft, southern rim of the crater to look at a 12-inch by 6-inch rock.]

144:48:55 Cernan: Yeah, yeah, yeah; that's right.

144:49:00 Parker: And somewhere here along the line, Jack, I guess maybe when you get those, you ought to stop and take the pan.

144:49:08 Schmitt: Okay, Bob.

144:49:11 Cernan: Okay, Bob, the long can is sealed and I guess nobody knows what's in it but me.

144:49:16 Parker: No one ever will, probably.

144:49:22 Cernan: And I may not even tell. (Pause)

[Jack demonstrates the difficulty of solo sampling. He is collecting four small rock fragments. He must hold the scoop by the end of the handle so that he can reach the ground and get a fragment. The scoop head is angled at 90 degrees and, after collecting each of the fragments, he tosses the scoop up, catches it near the head, tilts the scoop so that the fragments tumble to the heel of the scoop, and then lowers the scoop to collect the next fragment. The final time, he pours the fragments into a sample bag with some difficulty. By the end of the third EVA, he will have learned how to do solo sampling fairly efficiently.]

144:49:49 Parker: Copy. Thirty-one on the upper.

[Jack picks up a rock with the scoop. He rests the scoop handle against his crotch, but it falls again.]

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144:50:23 Parker: Okay, thank you, Geno. Copy that.

144:50:29 Schmitt: Okay, that little set of four samples is in 527, barely.

144:50:36 Parker: Okay, we hope it was worth the effort.

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144:50:43 Schmitt: Oh, it's all worth the effort; it just hurts (the hands).

[Jack goes to the SCB.]

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144:50:52 Schmitt: I won't...Aaaahh! (Pause)

[Jack has knocked the SCB over, scattering full sample bags. He drops to his hands and knees, facing upslope, gets the SCB standing upright, retrieves the sample bags, and stows them in the SCB without getting up.]

144:51:16 Parker: No. (Long Pause)

[Jack leans back to get his PLSS over his heels and kicks upright. He makes it, but drops the SCB in the process. He goes to one knee to retrieve it but stumbles and falls on his chest. He gets up successfully and goes to the scoop.]

[From later evidence, Gene is having trouble re-attaching the rake to the extension handle. Meanwhile, Jack's unused sample bags have fallen off his camera again.]

[Jack drops the SCB on the ground.]

[Jack turns away from the TV camera while he examines his 70-mm camera to see how dirty it is.]

144:52:07 Cernan: Want some help, Jack? I'll be there.

144:52:08 Schmitt: No! I don't need any help.

144:52:09 Cernan: Okay.

144:52:10 Schmitt: I just need better bags.

144:52:11 Parker: Jack, you might worry about whether your camera lens is dirty or clean, Jack. I don't know what you'd do about it.

144:52:19 Schmitt: I'm very worried about that.

144:52:20 Parker: I don't know what you'd do about it, but you might worry about it.

144:52:23 Schmitt: I don't have a thing to do...(Pause) It's clean. (Pause)

144:52:36 Cernan: Well, I'll be a son of a gun!

144:52:37 Schmitt: What's your problem?

144:52:39 Cernan: (Chuckles) I can't get this thing (the rake) locked on.

144:52:42 Schmitt: What the...

144:52:43 Cernan: The rake!

144:52:44 Schmitt: The rake!?

144:52:46 Cernan: Yeah. That should lock. And I turn that like that. There it comes.

[Gene is attaching the rake to the extension handle; he had removed the rake head so that he could attach the extension handle to the drive tube. Jack is now facing south, still trying to clean his camera.]

[Schmitt - "This request for an EMU check was actually a code phrase which meant 'In our opinion, you need to slow down a bit; and, if you want to give us an EMU check, we'll take it.'"]

144:53:04 Parker: Okay, copy that.

144:53:05 Schmitt: And no flags. (Long Pause)

[Jack starts a pan from the rim of Ballet Crater. When facing uphill he has to bend his knees and get on his toes to properly point the camera. When facing downhill, he only has to bend his knees. Figure 6-108 ( 47k ) from the Apollo 17 Preliminary Science Report is a planimetric map of Station 3 and shows the pan location.]

[Cernan - "There wasn't anything very exotic about taking pans. In training, we'd use real film and get it developed to see how we did. Basically, you wanted to get the horizon and it was pretty obvious what you had to do to get what you were looking for. It was just common sense. The only real variation was when I was facing upslope, sometimes I would take a picture of the foreground, lean back and get the horizon, then come down, turn a little, and take a picture straight in front of me, and then lean back to get the horizon again. That would give not only a horizontally overlapping pan but a vertically overlapping one as well for the local area that had a big upslope to it. I did that on my own because I figured that film was the least of our worries. And there were other times when I might take the camera off and sighted along the top surface to make sure I was getting things like the flag. And, of course, you had to use a lens-barrel sight when you used the 500."]

[Gene needs to put the rammer on Jack's PLSS. He had used the rammer to push followers into the drive tubes to compact and constrain the soil.]

144:54:00 Cernan: Yeah, I'm cleaning up his seat here. I'll do that.

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144:54:04 Schmitt: I think I can hack it.

[That is, he thinks he can manage by himself.]

[They are now about 4 hours 20 minutes into the EVA and have been at Station 3 for 29 minutes. As indicated on CDR-19 ( 29k), they had planned to leave at 4:04. A figure from an EVA-2 planning document by P.E. Reynolds of Bell Labs ( 50k ) shows the planned Return Distances and EVA Elapsed Times at various stages in the EVA. I have added the data for the actual EVA as dashed lines. The PLSS O2 and H2O walkback limits are shown as diagonal lines on the righthand side and, at the present moment, they are only about 10 minutes from the O2 walkback limit. Note that the actual return distances from the various stations are greater than those assumed in planning because Gene landed east of his target point to avoid Geophone Rock.]

144:54:28 Schmitt: Okay.

[Jack finishes the pan.]

144:54:37 Schmitt: What's that?

144:54:38 Parker: I said we're watching you, but don't let that inhibit you.

144:54:44 Schmitt: Bob, I don't let anything inhibit me. And I don't stay mad very long.

[Schmitt - "I was acknowledging that I'd been mad at him."]

[Jack gets the scoop by stepping on the head, thereby raising the handle.]

144:54:55 Schmitt: (Laughs, having dropped the scoop again)

144:55:01 Cernan: Well, there's an easy way to do everything.

144:55:05 Schmitt: The question is can you hang on to it once you've done it? (Pause)

[Jack manages to grab the upright SCB without trouble this time and then tries to get the unused sample bags. Gene arrives with the tongs.]

144:55:22 Schmitt: (Facing away from Gene) Where are you? They don't stay on my camera anymore.

[With his tongs, Gene easily gets the sample bags. Jack goes to the Rover.]

144:55:34 Schmitt: (Garbled) the samples from that...Oh...I need it...I gotta go up there. Wait! (Calling loudly after Gene) Take an "after". Cross-Sun, from over to the north of the gnomon.

144:55:45 Cernan: You didn't get an "after", huh?

144:55:46 Schmitt: No.

144:55:46 Cernan: (Garbled)

144:55:47 Schmitt: Oh, I got it; I'll get it. If you'll mount this thing (the SCB Jack was using).

[Gene goes to the Rover.]

144:55:58 Parker: Nothing! Get on the Rover and leave.

144:56:00 Schmitt: Get the heck out.

144:56:01 Parker: Don't forget the gnomon.

144:56:03 Cernan: Okay. We're going back to get that "after", and we won't forget it. (Pause)

144:56:13 Schmitt: I think you might be able to decipher this station, Bob.

144:56:21 Parker: That's the general idea.

[Jack's "afters" of the trench are AS17-138-21178 to 21180. This has been a very frustrating station for Jack. He had done some training doing solo sampling, but this station, more than any other in all of Apollo, offers support for his contention that, "We should have always sampled in pairs. It was just a lot more efficient."]

[Cernan - "Working in pairs has its advantages and we certainly saw that at Station 2. But, here, I was getting a core sample and that was a one-man job. There's no sense in two people doing that, so what is the other man going to do but something like take a pan and do some solo sampling? It's always nice to have the other guy to help and point things out, but you can still get a great deal of sampling done by yourself. Sampling seems to go smoother as a two-man operation because of the constraints of the suit: one guy can hold the bag and the other guy can pour a sample in. But it's also something you can learn to do by yourself. And, even when there are two of you doing the sampling, you have to wonder if you're really getting your money's worth out of the second guy. So, I'm not hard over on it like Jack is. This station was set up to be two one-man operations, particularly the core sample. Jack got a little frustrated. He dropped things, and his bags kept coming off, and he fell down. And all that adds up to the frustration that he feels about this station. But if one-man sampling had gone smoothly - which it could have - then he probably would have had a different attitude. Maybe the design of the tool should have been a little bit different or maybe there should have been different techniques, but I don't think that there should be a hard-and-fast rule about two-man sampling."]

[Schmitt - "I have no problem with the fact that we tried to do solo sampling; I'm just saying that it wasn't very efficient. So I'll modify my position to say 'whenever possible'. Although, who knows? Maybe if we had worked in sequence - done the core together and then done the sampling together - it would probably not have taken any more time and it certainly wouldn't have been as frustrating."]

[As mentioned above, by the end of the third EVA, Jack will be doing solo sampling fairly efficiently.]

144:56:34 Schmitt: I should hope so.

[Schmitt - "They eventually named this Ballet Crater."]

[Gene is referring to the bag locks on the gate. He is trying to secure the SCB that Jack was using at the crater rim. On-camera, Jack is going for the gnomon. In response to Bob's 'Ballet' comment, he does two, big, one-footed hops on his right leg, with his left leg extended up and back, flexed at the knee. He is on the outer slope of the crater, hopping toward the rim. After the second hop (TV still by Ken Glover) , he loses his balance and falls on his hands and knees. Clearly, he is playing. Fendell pans away.]

[Schmitt - "I don't remember this, but I'm sure I was playing. It wouldn't have been out of character, and it was a major effort to get the heel up high."]

[Cernan - "You have to develop confidence in the suit. You didn't want to roll down into a rocky crater and bust up the PLSS, and you didn't want to tear the suit on a rock. You were cautious and were aware of the possibility of busting something on the suit if you did something extreme. But the suit had to be designed so that, in ordinary operations, what you did was more constrained by the inherent mobility and flexibility of the suit rather than by safety. You wanted to be sure that safety considerations simply didn't arise. Jack would have been a lot more careful had he been walking through a boulder field but here, on this little crater rim, there weren't any rocks, and this little bit of playing wasn't particularly dangerous at all."]

144:56:48 Parker: Okay.

144:56:49 Cernan: ...and the left one is almost non-functional.

144:56:50 Parker: Okay.

[Fendell pans back to Jack, who has gotten up, apparently without difficulty.]

144:57:07 Parker: Okay, well, we'll keep those bags underneath the seat, anyway.

144:57:09 Schmitt: Here, I'll work on it.

[Jack returns to the Rover.]

144:57:15 Schmitt: We don't have any room! Well, we can take bag 7 out.

144:57:20 Cernan: That one's locked...in good shape. Let's press on. We got the (gravimeter) reading? Let me put the rammer on your back and see if we can't get this (sample bag holder) on your camera. (Pause)

[Fendell pans north, looking at the near-field.]

144:57:44 Cernan: I don't know; he hasn't said anything. I expect he will.

144:57:47 Parker: No, we will not turn the SEP on, guys. You might cover it with the (thermal) blankets as well as you can. And how about a temperature reading before you leave, when you do that?

144:57:56 Cernan: It's one hundred.

144:57:58 Parker: Copy that. 100, and understand both switches are Off and the covers are closed.

144:58:05 Cernan: Well, the covers are closed now. They weren't.

144:58:07 Parker: Okay. Roger....

144:58:08 Cernan: They're not going to stay closed.

144:58:09 Parker: ...That's what I mean.

144:58:10 Cernan: (To Jack) Okay. Turn the other way. Left. Let me just slip this (rammer)...

144:58:16 Schmitt: Well, I don't know why it (the bag holder on his camera bracket) isn't staying on, but it certainly isn't.

144:58:19 Cernan: Move over and turn...Okay.

144:58:22 Schmitt: Is that the same one? I may have bent it.

144:58:27 Cernan: I think you did, now.

144:58:28 Schmitt: Yeah. I just bent that, didn't I?

144:58:35 Cernan: Yeah, that's not going to stay on. Yeah, you bent it (chuckles) very well.

144:58:40 Schmitt: Wonder how I did that?

144:58:41 Cernan: I don't know. You'll lose these bags.

Video Clip ( 2 min 15 sec 0.6 Mb RealVideo or 22 Mb MPEG )

144:58:45 Schmitt: Okay, well, we'll...

144:58:46 Cernan: I got bags.

144:58:47 Schmitt: We'll revise our procedures.

144:58:49 Cernan: I got bags.

144:58:51 Schmitt: (To Bob) I guess I bent my camera brack(et)...mounting point...the camera point.

144:58:56 Cernan: Turn around.

[Fendell finds them at Jack's side of the Rover.]

144:59:07 Cernan: We might be able to fix that in the cockpit.

144:59:09 Schmitt: Yep.

[Cernan goes to his seat.]

144:59:11 Schmitt: Okay, are we all through, have you got...

144:59:13 Parker: ...(we'll) worry about that when you get back in (the LM). (Pause)

[Jack waves into the TV.]

144:59:29 Schmitt: I'll get on.

144:59:30 Cernan: Okay.

144:59:31 Schmitt: Oh, I guess I need to get another film mag, huh?

144:59:33 Parker: Okay, how about frame counts on both you guys before you start?

[Jack goes to the gate.]

144:59:45 Parker: We suggest magaline...(correcting himself) magazine Juliett, please.

144:59:51 Schmitt: (Laughing and indulging in some word play) Okay, we'll get "magaline" Julieing.

[This is Apollo magazine 133.]

144:59:58 Parker: Okay, copy that, Geno. (Pause)

145:00:06 Schmitt: Fire, fire, two frames. You know, I'd enjoy this if it weren't so much fun.

[Jack advances the film two frames so that, when he removes the magazine, he won't lose any pictures.]

145:00:18 Schmitt: Yeah.

145:00:19 Cernan: (I'll) shoot a 500 while you're doing that. (Jack laughs) No sense in me sucking my thumb.

145:00:24 Schmitt: I know.

145:00:25 Parker: 17, we'd really like the...

145:00:26 Cernan: (Laughing) Any time you want to do something, though.

145:00:28 Parker: ...we'd like to press on as quickly as possible.

[They will reach the walkback limit in about 4 minutes.]

[Fendell finds them at Cernan's seat. Jack hands out the 500-mm camera.]

145:00:32 Schmitt: Got it?

145:00:33 Cernan: Got it.

145:00:34 Parker: In case you didn't get...

145:00:35 Schmitt: Take a portion of the Scarp over there you can see.

145:00:38 Parker: 17, do you copy? Houston.

145:00:42 Cernan: What?

145:00:43 Parker: We'd like to press on...

145:00:44 Cernan: What?

145:00:45 Parker: ...as soon as possible, please.

145:00:48 Schmitt: Yes.

145:00:49 Cernan: We are, Bob, but he's got to change his mag.

145:00:53 Parker: Roger.

145:00:54 Cernan: I'm going to stand here and look around.

Video Clip ( 2 min 52 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 28 Mb MPEG )

145:00:57 Parker: Okay. (Pause)

[Jack has a film magazine from under Gene's seat. He has taken the dark slide out of the new magazine and has put the dark slide on his seat. He then removes the old magazine and puts that on the seat.]

145:01:05 Cernan: Okay, I'm picking up with (500 mm) mag - or (correcting himself) with frame 56 - and I'm going to try to get a little bit of where the Scarp overlaps the North Massif. I can't see much of it...(Pause) All I could get was three frames of that. Now I'm picking up the South Massif. (Long Pause)

[Jack has finished loading the new film magazine, having secured a latch across the top. He gets the dark slide and inserts it into the used magazine. Although the dark slide has a wire handle large enough to accommodate the glove fingers, inserting the dark slide was still delicate finger work.]

[Schmitt - "It still amazes me that we could manipulate that dark slide, particular with our hands so tired."]

[Gene's four pictures of Hanover and the Scarp on the North Massif are AS17-144- 22047 to 22050. The first of these is superb.]

[Gene's photos of the South Massif summit are AS17-144- 22051 to 22071.]

[Frame 22056 is the best display of outcropping.]

145:02:26 Schmitt: Okay. Oh, I ought to put that (used mag) in there so you've got room for your (500 mm) camera.

145:02:34 Parker: You got a final frame count there, Gene?

145:02:43 Schmitt: (To Gene) Okay, I'm all set. (Pause)

[Jack goes around the back of the Rover to his seat.]

[Gene's photographs of Wessex Cleft and the Sculptured Hills peak to the east are AS17-144- 22072) to 22077.]

145:03:10 Cernan: Yes, sir. And, Bob, they were all (taken) with the lens cap off.

145:03:17 Parker: Splendid.

[Schmitt - "I think that during training, somebody took a bunch of pictures with the lens cap on, and it was always a big joke afterwards. On the 500-mm, you don't look through the lens to sight it. So you could leave the lens cap on and not know it. It was built that way because, with your head inside the helmet and the camera outside, the camera was a long way from your eye and a viewfinder would have been useless."]

[At other stations when we get to see the 500-mm being used, a gunsight is visible on the lens barrel.]

[Cernan - "With the 500 mm, unlike the 70 mm, if you moved it just a little bit you didn't get what you wanted. So the bullseye helped us a lot."]

[Fendell watches Jack as he mounts the Rover. He grabs the SEP mast with his left hand, jumps, pulling himself inboard and kicking his feet up, and bounces down on to the seat. This occurs at about 2 min 30 seconds into the video clip.]

145:03:27 Parker: Okay. And, Jack, what's the heading say?

145:03:28 Schmitt: (To Gene) Why don't you fix that high-gain so you can see?

145:03:32 Parker: We'll get the reading we need for the Nav update. Do you think you can give us the heading right now?

[TV off.]

145:03:50 Parker: Okay. We're waiting.

145:03:51 Schmitt: I've got some parallax. I think it's four-one, though.

145:03:59 Cernan: What you looking at?

145:04:01 Schmitt: The heading.

145:04:02 Cernan: 043 is what I gave 'em earlier.

145:04:07 Parker: Yeah, we were wondering if it drifted while you were there, because we're going to give you, now, a...

145:04:10 Cernan: Bob, let me...

145:04:11 Parker: ...going to give you one to update it, if it has drifted at all.

145:04:15 Cernan: Okay, it did drift, 041 is a good number.

145:04:18 Parker: Okay. Stand by. (Pause) Okay. That's fine. No torque necessary, Geno.

145:04:30 Schmitt: I'm strapped.

145:04:33 Cernan: You liked the drift, huh?

145:04:35 Parker: Great.

145:04:36 Cernan: Okay. Oh, Dadgummit!

145:04:39 Schmitt: What's wrong? Oh, the hammer (caught again under the console)?

145:04:42 Cernan: Yeah. Every time. Okay, let's go.

145:04:46 Schmitt: All right, sport...

145:04:47 Cernan: I'm going to head...

145:04:49 Schmitt: We didn't really do all the things we wanted to do, but I think we did everything we could.

145:04:52 Parker: We did everything we wanted to (garbled).

145:04:55 Cernan: Okay, let's get ready to roll.

145:04:56 Schmitt: (Garbled) flight line stereo.

145:04:59 Cernan: Okay, Bob...Oh!

145:05:01 Schmitt: (Looking at LMP/CDR-19.) You got the TGE, (TV) camera...The low gain is 060.

145:05:06 Cernan: You get the gnomon in?

145:05:07 Schmitt: Didn't you get it? Wait a minute.

145:05:09 Cernan: You took the "after". It's not sitting out there.

145:05:12 Schmitt: No, I thought I handed...Didn't you stick it in?

145:05:14 Cernan: Yes, I stuck it in. I got it.

145:05:18 Schmitt: Okay. We can look back. (Laughs; Pause; Static)

145:05:23 Cernan: (Garbled), Bob.

[Gene is probably reporting that they are rolling.]

145:05:29 Cernan: You did, and I put it in.

145:05:33 Schmitt: Okay, that's good. (Pause) Okay! Whoo-boy, rest the old hands. (Pause)

145:05:55 Parker: Okay, we've recommendations for Minimum (cooling) for you. Gene...(Correcting himself) Jack.

145:06:02 Cernan: I think I am in Minimum.

145:06:03 Parker: Jack, what was...Sorry. (I mean) "Jack".

145:06:04 Cernan: I am already.

145:06:06 Schmitt: Yeah, I'll go to Minimum. Yes, I will. (Pause)

145:06:15 Parker: And give us a mark rolling, please.

145:06:18 Cernan: Yeah, Bob, I gave you one. We've been rolling for about 30 seconds.

145:06:23 Parker: Copy that.

145:06:24 Cernan: We're at 087 and 5.9 on the range.

145:06:28 Parker: Copy that. And the drive to Station 4 will be nominal and we'll get a Rover sample at about 094/5.1 but it will be the track as indicated on the map and the cuff checklist. (Pause)

[The checklist calls for a drive of 0.6 kilometers on a heading of 069 from Station 3 to reach an LRV sample point at 089/5.1. After getting the sample, they will drive 1.5 kilometers on a heading of 052 to Shorty.]

145:06:05 Cernan: Okay. On our way.

[Jack's first three photos of the traverse are AS17-133- 20194, 20195, and 20196.]

145:07:11 Cernan: Yeah, I got it in front of me.

145:07:12 Schmitt: Okay. And, we're heading...

145:07:15 Cernan: Heading is 069, around...Well...I got it. I know where we're going.

145:07:19 Schmitt: Yeah, that's pretty close.

145:07:21 Cernan: I know we're next to that bend (in the traverse path indicated on the checklist map), but I know where we're going. My next is 094/5.1 is what I want for that sample.

145:07:26 Schmitt: Yeah. Zero what?

145:07:30 Cernan: I think he said 094/5.1.

145:07:31 Schmitt: He meant...052 is what's nominal.

[Jack is misreading his checklist. 052 is the heading of Station 4 from Station 3 given on page LMP/CDR-18.]

145:07:36 Parker: Five point one; zero nine four, five decimal one. (Pause)

145:07:48 Schmitt: (Realizing his mistake) Oh, okay, that's the heading.

145:07:50 Cernan: All right. You got 094/5.1.

145:07:52 Schmitt: Yeah, got it. (Pause) You going to drive by this big rock?

145:08:03 Cernan: Want to look at it? Can't see it. I can't see when that (reflection off the) LCRU shines into my eyes. (Pause)

[Cernan - "I have a vague recollection about this. We were starting to come back northeasterly. We were still in the very early morning sun, even on the second day and there was a lot of reflective material on the front of the Rover which meant that you had to be very careful."]

[Jack's five photos taken during the approach to the rock are AS17-133- 20197 to 20201.]

145:08:35 Parker: Okay, copy that.

145:08:36 Schmitt: And it looked like a gray breccia. I'm not sure, though. All I could see was the surface texture, and it had the nodular or elongate nodular texture that those breccias had up on the South Massif.

145:08:52 Parker: Okay, copy that, Jack.

145:08:58 Schmitt: (Calling) Where are you, Shorty?

145:09:02 Cernan: And the battery temperatures are 100 and 130.

145:09:06 Parker: Copy that.

[Jack's three photos AS17-133- 20202 to 20204 cover the next minute or two of the traverse.]

[Schmitt - "In working with Ron Schrieve, an old friend of mine at UCLA who is an expert on landslides and avalanches, we had come up with a list of things that one might see to verify if this was actually an avalanche deposit that we were driving over. And this discussion refers to the list of things that one sees in terrestrial avalanches. And what I was saying was that 100 million years or so of gardening has pretty well destroyed the kind of detailed features that Ron had indicated one might see on a fresh avalanche. Now, one thing that I thought I observed at the time but which hasn't come up yet in the transcript - which makes me think it must have come up when I started studying the photographs after the mission - was that it appeared that the larger the crater in the surface of the light mantle, the larger the blocks that were on its rim. Combining that observation with the lack of any sizable rocks in the rake samples suggested that you get fine material on top and coarser and coarser material as you go down in the light mantle, which is what you would expect to happen in an avalanche. The larger fragments having a smaller surface area to volume ratio, and would naturally sink to the bottom of the flow. And that's really the only possible evidence we saw that it was actually an avalanche, other than the general form and characteristics."]

[Prior to Apollo 17, Jack made a series of bets with geologist Robin Brett concerning the answers to a number of geological questions to be addressed by Apollo 17. Grant Heiken, editor with David Vaniman and Bevan French of the superb Lunar Sourcebook, has provided a copy of the document signed by Schmitt and Brett formalizing the bets. Item 3 deals with the light mantle.]

145:09:54 Cernan: No, you didn't. No, you did not; you did not.

145:09:56 Parker: Okay, that may be telling us something, we hope (about a gauge problem rather than a battery problem). Press on.

145:10:04 Schmitt: Okay. LMP is in Minimum (cooling).

145:10:06 Parker: Copy that, thank you. (Long Pause)

145:10:24 Cernan: Okay. (I) ought to cut left up here a little bit.

145:10:26 Schmitt: Yeah, I think so.

145:10:29 Cernan: Ooh!

[Gene has just driven through a small but deep crater, perhaps the lunar equivalent of a highway pothole on Earth.]

145:10:35 Cernan: (Laughing) Good lord! What was the aspect ratio (depth divided by width) of that little thing.

145:10:39 Schmitt: Yeah, that's what they call a pit crater. Hey, can you swing a little bit and let me get that fragment (rimmed) crater? See that one on your left there? (Static as Gene turns)

[Jack's three photos of the approach to this larger crater ahead of them are AS17-133- 20205, 20206, and 20207.]

145:11:04 Schmitt: Yeah, I got them.

[Gene is probably saying that this is the first really blocky-rimmed crater they've seen on the light mantle.]

[Gene is taking a turn at description while Jack grabs a quick sample. This is another example of efficient team work. The documentation photos for this sample are AS17-133- 20208 and AS17-137- 20983. The samples, 74115 to 74119, all proved to be regolith breccias - so-called 'instant rock' - formed by the compression of regolith by the impact. Like regolith breccias Gene and Jack will sample at Station 9 and Dave and Jim sampled at their Station 9, regolith breccias are 'friable', meaning that they break apart or crumble easily. The crater is about 15 meters across and the impact didn't reach deep enough to bring up any basalt from the underlying mare material. It's location relative to Lara and to Shorty is marked in a labelled screen grab from LROC Quick Map. A higher-resolution screen grab shows that the crater has rays, another indication that it is very fresh.]

145:11:26 Cernan: Okay, and that's in bag 41 Yankee.

145:11:33 Parker: Copy that.

145:11:37 Cernan: And we're on our way.

145:11:39 Parker: Great.

145:11:44 Cernan: Get your (after) picture, Jack?

145:11:49 Schmitt: Yeh. LMP frame count is one-five.

145:11:53 Parker: Copy that.

[Jack's next five photos are AS17-133- 20209 to 20213. The first of these was taken as they drove off the ejecta blanket of the fragmental crater.]

145:12:01 Parker: Okay, 090, 5.3.

145:12:03 Schmitt: See Shorty out there yet?

145:12:04 Cernan: Well, I...(Long Pause)

145:12:17 Schmitt: Bob, I couldn't tell whether that was just...It looked like that might have been a crater that had got to bedrock. There may have been a high point, or let's say a thin point, in the light mantle, and it got down to bedrock. But I can't...It's the most blocky-rimmed crater we've seen for a long time.

145:12:33 Cernan: Yeh. All these others are nowhere near that...Look at that.

145:12:37 Schmitt: No. It was about 15 meters in diameter. (Long Pause)

[This is stop LRV-5. When the bag was opened after the mission, the contents were subsequently split into Apollo samples 74110 through 74119. As indicated in - or can be inferred from - the Preliminary Science Report, samples 74110 - 74114 contain the soil that was in the bag while samples 74115 through 74119 are described as "friable clods", an indication that most of the "fragments" around the crater are regolith breccias - or "instant rock" - formed from soil compacted in the impact that dug the crater.]

[Jack's next four photos are AS17-133- 20214 to 20217.]

145:13:27 Parker: Roger. (Making a mis-identification) We're still reading you, Jack.

145:13:32 Cernan: Okay. Are you reading us through the LM or through the low-gain?

145:13:35 Parker: As far as I can tell, we're reading you through the low-gain. It's been working just great tonight, Geno.

145:13:42 Cernan: Okay, that's great...

145:13:44 Schmitt: (In a tone of mock outrage) Tonight?

[Jack is noting that, while it may be nighttime in Houston, it's daytime at Taurus-Littrow.]

145:13:54 Cernan: Okay, we're 093 and 5.2. We're almost there. Going to be right on the rim of that crater. (Pause)

145:14:08 Parker: Okay. And, 17, the word from the Backroom is: with that last Rover sample you got, we'd like to go straight to Station 4. We won't get the one here at 094 and 5.3...(Correcting himself) 5.1, excuse me.

145:14:23 Schmitt: Bob, I thought the purpose was to sample the light mantle?

145:14:29 Parker: We talked to them about that, but they...

145:14:31 Schmitt: We didn't sample light mantle at that last one.

145:14:33 Parker: I agree. I talked to them about that. But they are so anxious to get to Station 4, I guess they don't want to do it.

145:14:42 Schmitt: Well, how about it, Gene? A little real time (crew decision)...

[Cernan - "It's hard to recall, but I've got to believe that we were forced into that decision because we had already stopped and had positioned ourselves to get that sample. And, when you're there, it makes sense to get it. And, heck, it didn't take 30 seconds."]

145:14:47 Schmitt: I think we got to.

145:14:48 Cernan: 094, 5.1. You got your picture?

145:14:50 Schmitt: Yeah.

[This may be AS17-133- 20218.]

145:14:51 Schmitt: That's good enough.

145:14:53 Cernan: You happy?

145:14:55 Schmitt: We'll get the sample (pause) anyway.

145:14:58 Cernan: Okay. 094, 5.1.

145:15:00 Parker: Copy that.

145:15:02 Cernan: That's good, Jack. (Pause) Sample is in 42 Yankee.

145:15:08 Parker: Copy that.

145:15:13 Cernan: And we are rolling! And give me a bearing and a range to (means "at") Station 4.

145:15:19 Parker: Roger. It will be bearing of 100 and range of 4.6.

[The checklist indicates a Shorty location of 101/4.1. The actual Shorty stop will be at 102/4.4. See, however, the discussion at 145:23:32.]

145:15:32 Schmitt: LMP frame count is 25.

145:15:36 Cernan: Was that one-zero-zero, four point six?

145:15:39 Parker: Roger, Gene. (Long Pause)

[Jack's four photos taken during the next stage of the traverse are AS17-133- 20219 to 20222.]

145:16:40 Cernan: Hold it, babe. We got to do a little detouring.

145:16:45 Schmitt: Okay, what we're looking for is 101...

145:16:51 Cernan: Yeh. 100, 4.6. I'll detour. I'll just get down this slope. I don't see Shorty though, do you?

145:16:58 Schmitt: Wait a minute, is that it? Is that it out there straight ahead?

145:17:07 Cernan: Well, let me get down this slope.

145:17:08 Schmitt: Something's dark out there. I think that's it.

145:17:10 Cernan: It might be right over there to the left a little bit?

145:17:13 Schmitt: Your left, yeah.

145:17:14 Cernan: Yeah, right over there. I think I can cut it right across there. That's going to be about the right place.

145:17:19 Schmitt: Seems a little far from here, but...Maybe not. (Pause) Oh, I forgot to take pictures again. Trying to shade my eyes. (Pause) That Scarp certainly is spectacular going up there by Hanover, isn't it?

145:17:51 Cernan: It just rolls over the side, doesn't it?

145:17:53 Schmitt: Yeh. (Pause) I don't know what else we can say about it, though. (Chuckles) Okay, we're getting a good view of the North Massif, and the cross-hatched lineaments that Gene has talked about are over there, also. They seem to be a set that plunge about, oh, 30 degrees to the east and another set that plunge about the same to the west. Plus the boulder tracks, which we see occasionally over there. And there are areas of boulder fields up on the Massif itself, such as we saw on the South Massif. As a matter of fact, it looks like there's one just above where Station 6 may be. Straight ahead of us there, Geno.

145:18:59 Cernan: Uh-huh.

145:19:02 Schmitt: About bearing 060 from our present position, which is 098 and 4.8. (Long Pause; brief, light static)

145:19:25 Cernan: If I change that heading, that (reflection off the) LCRU comes right in on me. (Pause)

145:19:32 Schmitt: I don't see anything like layering up there. Although the upper boundary of those boulder fields on the North Massif, and, as a matter of fact, on the South Massif...

145:19:47 Cernan: That's Shorty straight ahead of us, I think.

145:19:49 Schmitt: Yeah.

145:19:51 Cernan: Yep, that's got to be it.

[The next five photos taken during the approach to Shorty are AS17-133- 20223 to 20227.]

[In frame 20223, Shorty is on the right.]

[In 20226, Shorty is hidden by an intervening ridge.]

[Frame 20227 is the best of the approach pictures. The Station 4 boulder is on the right, just below the low-gain antenna rear extension.]

145:20:07 Cernan: Yep. We're at 099/4.7, Bob.

145:20:11 Parker: Okay, great. Sounds like you're just about there.

145:20:16 Cernan: Yeah, I think we got it in front of us.

145:20:18 Parker: Okay. (Pause)

145:20:26 Schmitt: Bob, looking at the Sculptured Hills (at the east end of the valley), I think Gene's comments the other day about Bear Mountain would apply. There's a small relief - or small amplitude hummockiness - to the surface. It's formed by a cross-hatch of...Let's say the slope I'm looking at is sort of (a) west-facing slope on the other side of Wessex Cleft (a vale between the North Massif and the Sculptured Hills), (and) it's formed by lineaments plunging about 10 degrees to the north and about 10 degrees to the south. And the combination gives some hummocks that are quite distinct. (Pause)

145:21:14 Cernan: Well, you know it's hard to see a(n ejecta) blanket here, but that's got to be Shorty right there.

145:21:18 Schmitt: Okay...

145:21:19 Cernan: It's the only real large...

145:21:22 Schmitt: We want to park...I don't think we'll see a blanket...

145:21:24 Cernan: I don't either.

145:21:26 Schmitt: Well, at least we're going to see where the break in slope is for the rim. (Pause) My goodness.

145:21:35 Cernan: Oh, look at the boulder sitting on that rim.

145:21:38 Schmitt: It's different.

[Jack takes AS17-133- 20227, the best of the approach pictures, at about this point. It shows the boulder.]

145:21:42 Schmitt: No question.

145:21:44 Cernan: We're at 101, 4.5.

145:21:46 Parker: Copy that.

145:21:50 Schmitt: Okay...

145:21:51 Parker: Let us know when you stop and where you're...

145:21:53 Cernan: (Looking at LMP/CDR-20) Which rim did I want to park on?

145:21:54 Schmitt: Well, I think we ought to park over here near that big boulder.

145:21:57 Cernan: Yeah, if I can get up there. I think I can.

145:22:02 Schmitt: You can swing in, you know, and just park parallel to the...Of course, that will put them looking back. What...Can you park any direction?

145:22:09 Cernan: Well, yeah, but 045 gives me a good...Let me work on it.

145:22:13 Schmitt: Okay.

145:22:14 Cernan: Let me get up there slowly. I'll put them on this low saddle here. 045 will give them a good heading.

[Cernan - "As I recall, we had worked out all the parking attitudes based on for battery cooling, TV coverage, and a number of things."]

[Jack takes AS17-133- 20228 as Gene turns to park.]

145:22:38 Cernan: Man, are you going to get a picture now.

145:22:40 Schmitt: Oh, yeah.

145:22:41 Parker: We can hardly wait.

[They are probably getting their first look into the crater.]

[Schmitt - "I don't remember coming up to the rim of Shorty very well. I can remember looking into the crater. Apparently, from the dialog here, it looked as if we were headed into the crater; although, from the photographs of where we parked the Rover, it doesn't look like we were that close to going down into the crater."]

145:22:45 Parker: Okay. And when you stop and get off, give me (the) word and I'll read you up some revised plans for Station 4.

[They are now about 4 hours 49 minutes into the EVA. As indicated by the dash lines in the walkback diagram ( 50k ), they have about a half an hour till they have to leave. At 145:37:01 Bob will tell Gene and Jack that they will have to leave no later than 145:57.]

145:23:22 Parker: Copy that. And did I understand 4.2 on the range, Gene?

[Cernan - "I didn't say "4.2" very clearly, but I can hear it and that's what it was."]

145:23:31 Cernan: Yes, sir!

145:23:32 Parker: Okay. Copy that.

[As indicated in the Rover navigation work-up at 164:48:06, a range of 4.2 kilometers gives a SEP transmitter position in error to the west by almost 200 meters. A reading of 4.4 would be more compatible with the known locations of the SEP transmitter and of Station 4. Readers should note that, although Gene's "4.2" has always sounded to me (and to the original NASA transcriber) like "4.4", he is quite positive that what is recorded on the tape is 4.2. The fact that Bob seems to have heard 4.2 is additional supporting evidence of Gene's contention. If true, the only other comparable Nav system error is the Station 2 reading which gives a 200 meter easterly error. These uncertainties are comparable to the range reading observed by the Apollo 15 crew when they returned to the LM at the end of their second EVA. On this second Apollo 17 EVA, the residual error back at the LM will be less than 100 meters. As a final piece of evidence, we have Gene's report that they were at a range of 4.5 one minute before he had the Rover parked. To get to 4.2 in one minute, he had to reduce his range by at least 200 meters and probably a bit more. The implied minimum speed of 12 clicks is at the upper bounds of plausibility, especially if we deduct time for final maneuvering into the final orientation for parking. I believe that the bulk of the evidence supports 4.4 and I have used that figure in the Rover navigation work-up reported at 164:48.]

145:23:38 Parker: Sounds like an interesting crater, in any case.

145:23:39 Cernan: ...this is an impressive one. (To Parker) Wait until you see the bottom of it.

145:23:43 Parker: Okay. (Pause)